AS Women and Relationships

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(Double post)

Last edited by Hovis on 14 May 2009, 3:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

One thing I'm also reminded of here are some articles and message board posts I was reading about women who were having difficulties with their husbands after the men retired. Nearly all of them who had hobbies or interests, who liked to go places regularly with friends, etc., mentioned that their husbands seemed very resentful of it. They behaved as if their wives didn't want them and were 'shutting them out', although the women were doing no such thing and continued to have plenty of time free to spend with them. The truth of the matter was that they were simply unhappy about the fact that although they were now at home all day, their wives continued to have other matters that occupied their thoughts from time to time that did not directly involve them, and their day was not necessarily centered around their husband. If this situation can arise even with NT women, an Aspie woman with one or more intense special interests is certain, I think, to receive an even worse reaction.

No, go ahead.


About the differences between reading men and women's facial expressions: Women are more expressive, in general. I don't encounter many, but I am very slightly more aware of what they (and, like you say, gay men) might be thinking. But this is difficult to separate from their generally higher verbal expressiveness.


The pattern you describe, where the man starts off being really into you, then becomes agitated and offended, was very noticeable in the relationship I received the most criticism. He gave an angelic impression at first, with inifinite patience, but then the agitation etc. set in after a few months and increased dramatically one day. I think how one reacts to the initial attacks has a bearing on the relationship. Perhaps they are testing the boundaries at this stage.

I was naive and reacted with reason, logic, and patience. I don't think this is respected at all. However, this particular person had an even greater distaste for emotional displays and retaliation, which I've found some prefer (and one would even encourage). This person couldn't win logical arguments with me, which may have increased the agitation. Maybe he did feel partly emasculated, but, fundamentally, he thought I was broken and that I had to strive to fix myself to become less of a burden; he associated weaknesses with moral deficits requiring correction (due to a traditional upper middle-class upbringing).

In many cases, I think we should concentrate on the partners themselves when looking for reasons for their criticism; they may carry emotional baggage or are not very nice people. Being naive and/or unable to decode non-verbal signals might even attract such types. And once the relationship is comfortably established, they react to the communication difficulties in immature or passive-aggressive ways partly because that's their nature and partly because they don't know what to make of us.

It's strange they made very personal attacks against your sexuality. I've not had that; most wouldn't have minded if I'd had relationships with women. I'm not sure what to suggest. Perhaps they were traditional and wanted someone who was more dependent on them, and they needed that to feel secure and in control. I suspect they were projecting their insecurities (about their masculinity) onto you. Also, I don't know what the comments were, but there's often some grain of truth that gets distorted and magnified, which is why this method of manipulation is so effective.

In my case, the main theme permeating my experiences was that they would nearly always become bored. I would be in my own world, unable to communicate, and would appear unaffected by them; my boundaries did not extend to meet theirs, let alone risk violating them. They wanted a "real" person, with a visible personal and social identity. But, not even knowing what I was or experiencing a true peer group, I could not develop that.




I know what you mean about misreading the signals and experiencing the wrong place at the wrong time, the wrong person (oh yes) etc.

It's the other way round for me as far as sexuality and confidence is concerned. I only really developed in this area once reaching my thirties. As a child, older relatives would comment that I would break many hearts, but I don't think I've broken any.

I feel so incredibly lucky to have my husband (my third; we've been together 13 years). Though he resists accepting the Asperger/autism label for me (he doesn't like labelling people at all, whatever the label), he really does understand me, sometimes better than I understand myself, I think. He's incredibly patient and loving, and he accomodates me more than I think any mortal should be able to. He's perfect for me. I sometimes wonder how I lucked into him (long before I'd ever even heard of HFA / AS).

Yes, this is a good point, I guess that might be one answer. I never thought about the fact that being naive may actually attract these types of people, but that may very well be. I do seem to attract very specific types of people to me, and, unfortunately, they are usually people I don´t relate to or have much in common with. I´m not really sure how to attract the "right" guy.

I have read often that many AS people feel more comfortable showing their emotions through sex, rather than with verbal expression. I seem to be one of these types, too. I always thought, since men are supposed to love sex so much, that a man would appreciate this in a woman. However, now I´m wondering if, since it seems to be such a common stereotype that women are supposed to be emotional rather than sexual, maybe I appeared "too sexual" and turned them off, or scared them off. (?) Who knows.

I also seem to have- unfortunately- always attracted men who are extra critical about bodies. There was a time when I was dancing in a ballet company where the director was constantly telling me, or encouraging me to be thinner, but the boyfriend I was with wanted me to gain weight and complained my "breasts were too small"; so there was no way to make anyone happy. Basically, every man I was with noticed and commented if I gained or lost 5 pounds, but, like the rest of the population, my weight does tend to fluctuate occasionally and I hate having to be pressured about that. After having a virus once, where I couldn´t eat over a period of time, my boyfriend was furious when he finally saw me again because I had lost weight and my breasts were smaller. (Another boyfriend I had though loved thin women, and he was constantly worried that I was going to "let myself go" and gain weight). I thought for years that all men were like this, and that all women have this problem, but I´ve discovered recently that that doesn´t appear to be the case. (Even women with much smaller breasts than mine have told me they never had a problem with this).

What´s strange is that everyone seems to have the idea that men are not that picky, that they love sex and that they want it all the time. Apparently, seducing men should be easy for a woman, as men are supposed to be so willing. But I´ve found it to be totally different. In my experience, men are extra picky, critical about body parts, and, in terms of a woman initiating sex it takes huge theory of mind, because if it´s the "wrong time" for the man, he´ll freak out. I guess this is maybe because since men feel they have to "perform" sexually, they feel put upon if the woman wasn´t empathic enough to realize that that was not a good time. Even when I visited the dating and romance section on Wrong Planet, the prevailing attitude seemed to be that women only have to stand around and look pretty and wait for men to ask them out, that there´s nothing to it. I felt like a failure.

In addition to that, I suspect that there´s a certain sexual attitude that I´m supposed to adopt, in terms of how I interact with men, which I also don´t think I´ve mastered yet, but that´s another story, for another time...

Your boyfriend was furious you lost weight not due to health reasons but because your breasts were smaller?

You probably did encounter a specific type. I haven't encountered any that were that picky about appearances. I only know of one guy who is openly so about women--my cousin. Most I observed at university seemed to be happy with average or nice looks and good personality.

To be asked out, I found that I didn't have to do anything; however, I really didn't know how to discriminate. Are you also including all the ones you did not like?

Well, you´re right, I guess men I´m not interested in do ask me out, and for that I don´t have to do anything. That´s been one of the difficult things about relationships; I feel like the men have all the control, and make the choices. Most of my relationships felt quite random, and they started because the guy wanted me, I just went along with it for various reasons- (sometimes the wrong reasons). Only in one case was it really mutual.

This is not normal? It sums up much of my past.
And yet refusing leads to anger. In retrospect, don't know where some men get this sense of entitlement from.

I realise some of my problems lay in hoping that eventually would develop some feelings... Doomed to failure (unless irritation counts)

Arranged marriage could not be worse than this lack of decision making.

You say usually things soo familiar for me, morgana, that I could call you 'twin-sister' somewhat

Oh, that´s pretty cool!

Yeah, I was thinking about my last post, and I realize that when I watch other people get together, it looks so different! I watch men and women talk to each other, and they seem to be bonding; it looks mutual, and it looks effortless. They seem to start with easy and natural talking, and eventually it evolves into a relationship. I don´t know how they do it...that doesn´t seem to happen to me.

The way it happens with me is more like a "hunter-prey" sort of dynamic. When men approach me- (usually from off the street), they don´t really talk to me about what I would call "normal" subjects", they just make it very clearly known that they are attracted to me. When someone approaches me in that fashion, before I even know them at all, and make it too clear that they are attracted in that way, I just feel repulsed. Don´t know why it ends up that way for me...

^ I relate to this.
Maybe it follows the scenario you outline because there is a vast unknown vocabulary of subtleties we do not pick up on.
There may have been instances where quite nice men may have tried to engage you or me in their normal fashion (which i do not actually read or interpret or comprehend.) And so, these nice men have gone by the by and ended up in the sinewy arms of others more able to read their early (and to them "obvious") signals! So - maybe you did have others trying, but it is just we only pick up on the literal and blunt attempts by the ones who want to get the goodies in bed!

Now that i am a bit older and understand the strategies of normal dating from an intellectual perspective (and remember - I was someone who could not follow a fictional film that involved emotional interplays, until my mid twenties, ) I do look back and realise there were some nice men who may have been trying to engage with me in a way that was hoping for more. I just didn't get it or comprehend their attempts because of my ASD issues.

which leads me to wonder...how much do i actually miss on a day to day basis?
a lot....

In my case, only the blunt approach on the street type seemed to engage me at all. The other types avoided me like some plague. Others told me I was liked, just not as interaction partner material. They really don't like introversion.

at 46 i am relegated to the "blunt, approach on the net forum type." never again for that one.

the latest experience is indicative of my complete and utter naivety. i have to laugh. I am loathe to go into detail, but I am told by others the level and degree of my naivety is scary and verging on childlike. very true, too.

Yes, I agree with this. I don't know if there may have been occasions in the past where someone was indicating that he was interested, but I was oblivious to it and just thought he was being sociable, did not respond, and therefore, to him, rejected him. Whereas I was simply being polite back to someone who I thought was being so to me, I may in fact have been being 'cold' to someone who was trying to indicate his interest.

Precisely. If we do not have the language, how can we comprehend it?

Last year, a man from my high school days contacted me. He was a fellow student. He actually told me he once came around to my house and asked me out and I did not understand. I vaguely remember the incident. I certainly had NO IDEA he was asking me out at the time...none whatsoever.

I am either clueless in relation to others, or over-analyzing every action, word and movement of a person, in an attempt to make sense of any relationship dynamic with them (at any level.)

This is actually highly possible. I remember there were some instances where a man seemed interested in me, and I thought we were going to get together, but somehow, at some point he would suddenly act as if I had rejected him, when I hadn´t- (at least not verbally). When these things happened, they were always mysterious, I had no idea what was going on. Of course, I never confronted anybody about these things either, I just thought that they had changed their mind, or that I had misread them in the first place, so I just went along with it. It probably follows also that the nicest men are the more subtle ones. Sadly....