Page 6 of 6 [ 93 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

DerStadtschutz
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Sep 2011
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,467

18 Jun 2012, 12:54 pm

TheHouseholdCat wrote:
Freak-Z wrote:
They do it because of peer pressure and/or for attention there also seems this thing where not wearing much clothes is seen as 'liberating' and if you do cover up you are seen as frumpy or boring.

That's the only thing that really bothers me about that.

I always felt frumpy and boring because I never "showed skin". It's unfair.

But I guess this distinction between "liberated" and "boring" is something else the media aims at. Because if you notice that dressing in a "boring" way is bad, you'll try to go to the other end.


As long as the world is run by money and men, this won't change.


I got a newsflash for you: If the world was REALLY run by men, you girls wouldn't be allowed to vote or say anything in public. You wouldn't be so protected by divorce court. You'd probably be told how to dress, if you were allowed to dress at all. I would appreciate not seeing this kind of sexist, deluded drivel again. Men don't rule the world, and the only reason we pursue money in the first place is because you girls seem to like it so much. If we could attract a woman while living in a cardboard box, we wouldn't own homes and flashy cars.



Shatbat
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2012
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,791
Location: Where two great rivers meet

18 Jun 2012, 12:57 pm

I believe there are mental differences between men and woman, derived from a genetic and hormonal differences. At the very least, men tend to like women, and women tend to like men, and that should count for something.

Now I'm a bit confused about the extent of those differences, so I'll be grabbing hyperlexian's book when I have time and see how much do I agree with it. I do remember the chapter "The battle of the sexes" from Richard Dawkins' "The Selfish Gene", where he explained the differences in behaviour between males and females of any species as stemming from their reproductive asymmetry, and it was a sound theory so... I'll see how it goes~


_________________
To build may have to be the slow and laborious task of years. To destroy can be the thoughtless act of a single day. - Winston Churchill


Quantum_Immortal
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 332

18 Jun 2012, 1:15 pm

Zinia wrote:
Quantum_Immortal wrote:
Yong girls follow there instincts. And the instincts are there for a purpose. I thought, that women felt good being dressed up like that (you are the women, maybe you are a bit masculinized aspie women?). In sexually oppressive societies, they have to go out of there way in order to force women not to dress like that.


The thing is, women are all different. We all dress for different and complicated reasons.

I dress based on comfort, what I consider to be feminine and beautiful, and my choices are informed by my socialization as a child. When I was 6 years old I was drawing hearts with high heels and big eyelashes--that's because I learned as a child that those were indications of feminine gender in my culture.

I knew that Minnie Mouse, the female mouse, had eyeshadow, long eyelashes, high heels, and a short skirt. I knew that Betty Boop wore a form fitting red dress and lipstick. I internalized these dress elements as being part of the female gender---but I was not reacting on some kind of mating instinct, just the ingrained instinct to fit in and find my place (and others places) in my society, according to what my society suggested was appropriate for my sex.

It's interesting that you bring up societies which restrict clothing choices for women. Those women have to react to explicit pressure to dress a certain way. But women in post-industrial western societies also react to social pressure. If all women had the urge to dress in Western fashion instinctively, then wouldn't other societies across the globe have adopted the same fashion (edit--before social contact with western culture)? Women in oppressive countries aren't reacting to Western fashion in a vacuum, purely off of instinct....they wouldn't instinctively want to dress in Western styles without being exposed to Western culture.

Humans are animals, but we have giant brains and we take over a decade to mature physically and mentally. We rely very heavily on socialization, more so than any other animal, maybe.


That we are all different, that's done in purpose. Genetic recombination was invented for exactly that. Genetics play a big part in personality.

They are things that are wired. We aren't blank slates. Our bigger brains simply allow us to do more complicated things. We are still animals, and our insticts are important.

..... Being conformist(social pressure), is it self a wired instinct. It can be traced to a lot of animals, down to cockroaches. Giving all the credit to that instinct is exaggerated. And i'm not say it doesn't play a role, just that here its over done.

Our instincts, control our behavior, by controlling what we like, and don't like, they don't control us like bots.

Being an aspie, really means that we are wired differently. That we exist, shows how important the wired stuff is in our head.

It all boils down to interpretation of the facts. That ironically that too is wired to a large extent. Like hyperlexian said, its evolutionary psychology.


_________________
just a mad scientist. I'm the founder of:
the church of the super quantum immortal.
http://thechurchofthequantumimmortal.blogspot.be/


edgewaters
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,427
Location: Ontario

18 Jun 2012, 3:28 pm

Quantum_Immortal wrote:
Then, why even bother with something as dangerous as a mammoth?


Lot of food, and easy to kill. You don't think they killed them with spears, do you? That's a cartoonish version of prehistory. Mammoths were generally driven off cliffs or into pits, and humans seem to have started hunting such large game around the same time they discovered fire. I.e. they probably just set the grass or brush on fire to herd them. For all we know, they had children doing this ... it doesn't require any size or strength at all.



puddingmouse
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Apr 2010
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,777
Location: Cottonopolis

18 Jun 2012, 5:06 pm

DerStadtschutz wrote:
I got a newsflash for you: If the world was REALLY run by men, you girls wouldn't be allowed to vote or say anything in public.


Why?


_________________
Zombies, zombies will tear us apart...again.


DerStadtschutz
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Sep 2011
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,467

18 Jun 2012, 9:13 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
DerStadtschutz wrote:
I got a newsflash for you: If the world was REALLY run by men, you girls wouldn't be allowed to vote or say anything in public.


Why?


Because that's how it was, when men pretty much DID run the world. You have so many more rights these days, and while there are definitely still sexists around as there are racists, it seems like some of you are completely blind to the progress that's been made, and it seems like others don't even care about progress at all and just want to stick it to some man just for being a man(or in the case of racism, stick it to wh***y for being wh***y). Man AND Woman, white, black, yellow, red, brown, green, purple or whatever damn color, I wish we could all just get along and treat each other with some sort of dignity and respect, but far too often people are just worried about what they can get out of something.

But anyway, I don't know why we're always getting blamed for all that. There are definitely members of the female gender who just LOVE using sexuality to get what they want(and they're just as critical of themselves and each other), so it can't be ALL men's fault. That's all I was really trying to say with my original comment.



puddingmouse
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Apr 2010
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,777
Location: Cottonopolis

18 Jun 2012, 9:54 pm

DerStadtschutz wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
DerStadtschutz wrote:
I got a newsflash for you: If the world was REALLY run by men, you girls wouldn't be allowed to vote or say anything in public.


Why?


Because that's how it was, when men pretty much DID run the world. You have so many more rights these days, and while there are definitely still sexists around as there are racists, it seems like some of you are completely blind to the progress that's been made, and it seems like others don't even care about progress at all and just want to stick it to some man just for being a man(or in the case of racism, stick it to wh***y for being wh***y). Man AND Woman, white, black, yellow, red, brown, green, purple or whatever damn color, I wish we could all just get along and treat each other with some sort of dignity and respect, but far too often people are just worried about what they can get out of something.

But anyway, I don't know why we're always getting blamed for all that. There are definitely members of the female gender who just LOVE using sexuality to get what they want(and they're just as critical of themselves and each other), so it can't be ALL men's fault. That's all I was really trying to say with my original comment.


The question was broader. I was wondering what is it about patriarchal societies that they feel the need to limit the rights of women to assert their power?


_________________
Zombies, zombies will tear us apart...again.


Zinia
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Age: 43
Gender: Female
Posts: 344

19 Jun 2012, 2:56 pm

puddingmouse wrote:

The question was broader. I was wondering what is it about patriarchal societies that they feel the need to limit the rights of women to assert their power?


One could argue that the world is still ruled by men, because money really affects rulership, and the vast majority of all the money and wealth in the world still belongs to men.

Virginia Woolf wrote a little bit about your question in "A Room of One's Own."

She suggested that SOME men, insecure men, need other people to hold a mirror up to them in order to make them feel bigger.

These men need to look down on others, not just women, but also people of color or different sexual orientation, so that they can feel like they are valuable. This is because they depend on comparison to others for their own sense of self-value, and they deny that they have the qualities of others who they look down upon within themselves.

She suggested that once these men learn to embrace the other in themselves, and to accept that others are just as valuable as them, then they will become fully actualized people. At least that is my interpretation of her writing.



Mirror21
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Age: 43
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,751

22 Jun 2012, 8:08 am

RightGalaxy wrote:
Do they think that their vaginas are the sum total of themselves? Is it the media? the fashion industry? Who is to blame??! !

You know . . . I have no idea. I recently needed to undergo a female exam. That was extremely embarrassing! It was my first time (at the age of 29, i know neglectful of me) and I almost died of embarrassment. Cried afterwards waiting to get picked up from the hospital. I cannot IMAGINE why anyone would dress that way or want . .. well that kind of attention!



RightGalaxy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Age: 66
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,145

16 Nov 2012, 7:36 pm

IdahoRose wrote:
I agree with everything the OP said. It makes me sick to see young girls walking around in skimpy clothes. I really hate it when I see girls who aren't even teenagers yet wearing a bikini at the pool. Heck, I've even seen toddlers wearing bikinis! And don't even get me started on those beauty pageants for children...


That you IdahoRose!! ! Some of the other members made me feel like a convict for expressing my opinion. Too much make-up is one thing but half dressed is another.



puddingmouse
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Apr 2010
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,777
Location: Cottonopolis

16 Nov 2012, 7:51 pm

Zinia wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:

The question was broader. I was wondering what is it about patriarchal societies that they feel the need to limit the rights of women to assert their power?


One could argue that the world is still ruled by men, because money really affects rulership, and the vast majority of all the money and wealth in the world still belongs to men.

Virginia Woolf wrote a little bit about your question in "A Room of One's Own."

She suggested that SOME men, insecure men, need other people to hold a mirror up to them in order to make them feel bigger.

These men need to look down on others, not just women, but also people of color or different sexual orientation, so that they can feel like they are valuable. This is because they depend on comparison to others for their own sense of self-value, and they deny that they have the qualities of others who they look down upon within themselves.

She suggested that once these men learn to embrace the other in themselves, and to accept that others are just as valuable as them, then they will become fully actualized people. At least that is my interpretation of her writing.


I realise this was written a few months back, but I agree with it.



Watilla
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 8 Oct 2012
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 96

16 Nov 2012, 8:20 pm

RightGalaxy wrote:
Now, I'm 51 years old and I've lived long enough to see trends and how things end up. I've always had a wish that women in general would eventually value themselves more and see themselves in a better way than just sex objects. After all the women's lib marches in the 70's, Gloria Steinhem, the right to vote, the list goes on..... BUT STILL, when I drop my son off at school, what do I see?? Young girls not even yet 15 years old with shorts up their arses, low cut blouses that would even embarrass a prostitute (no insult to those who actually make a living this way). They sexualize themselves in school snapshots, on facebook, etc...
Do they think that their vaginas are the sum total of themselves? Is it the media? the fashion industry? Who is to blame??! !
My son is in honors classes and there are a "minority" of females in his classes. Yet they have far too many cheerleaders to where they have grueling competitions to even be considered for entry into this extracurricular activity. There is a minimal number of females in math clubs, school newspaper club, anything that requires a brain and NOT a vagina seems to be lacking enrollment! WHAT IS HAPPENING TO OUR GIRLS IN THIS COUNTRY??? What's going on here? It's the year 2012 and yet females are meaner to each other than ever before. Have we made any progress at all??


Hmm, it seems like you're wanting females to be taken seriously, but then throughout your whole post you're not taking them very seriously yourself.

To answer the question of "Why females aren't taken seriously", I think "male" and "female" things are valued and respected differently. For example, it is interesting that you'd bring up math clubs, as if it is somehow the only true level and way to show intelligence. Just an observation. Not attacking you, just trying to figure out where you are coming from as it is not very clear in your post.



unduki
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Oct 2011
Age: 66
Gender: Female
Posts: 652

16 Nov 2012, 9:11 pm

To the OP, I'm 53. I think in my lifetime, we've seen a lot of changes. When I was a kid, it was kinda like what you see on I Love Lucy. The man was king, told his wife how to vote, what to wear, what to think, everything.

When I graduated high school in 1977, women were fighting in court for the right to be paramedics or firefighters. There were very few scholarships for girls and none of them were athletic. We were almost over being told our place was to get married and raise a family.

In 1998, my city was trying to find a girl firefighter (specifically a girl) because one councilman had made a campaign promise about it. They looked high and low, statewide and couldn't find a girl who even wanted the job. There are plenty of women EMT's but that's not quite the same thing. Not a lot of female mechanics or tow truck drivers either, and I've never seen a female trash collector. The movement was frustrated.

I think, mostly, girls don't like to get grimy. Lots of guys don't like it either but just as many seem to be happier covered with a layer of filth. Men don't mind getting sweaty. Women generally do.

We are softer. We think differently. Some of us have the intelligence of sheep and some are rocket scientists. I think it's a crying shame when a rocket scientist has to exist as a sheep but I certainly don't think the sheep are any less valuable.

A lot of men are extremely threatened by an intelligent, confident woman, and that's the gal all the office ladies aim at when they gossip at the water cooler, but it's always been this way. We have equal pay laws now.

We're working it out and we still have a lot to do, but we'll get there.

To me it seems the change has been in how we derive our ideas of self worth. It used to come from family with a community as backup. Now it comes from pop culture beamed digitally into our minds. Families don't even eat dinner at the same time anymore so the level of interaction has tanked. I think society would be a lot better off if parents limited and carefully monitored their children's access to the digital world. Human interaction usually produces better results. Until more positive and productive programming is offered, turn off the TV.


_________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass; it's about learning to dance in the rain.