Why females aren't taken seriously

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I don't even think we have established what is considered "promiscuous" in the first place in reference to clothing (pictures would be helpful). There really isn't any frame of reference yet for that thread, so different people could be talking about different things and we wouldn't know about it.

men can post in here, as long as the posts are respectful.

i agree that something similar can sometimes be said about people not taking teenage boys seriously, but when was the last time someone picked on teenaged males in general for how they dress? i don't recall men being ridiculed for dressing in a way that appears sexually promiscuous.

i think you are making an unfair assumption about teenagers and their behaviour. you're falling into exactly the same trap that i was talking about - only noticing the ones that offend you, whilst overlooking the rest of them. what about the 17 year-old doing humanitarian work, or the 16 year-old lobbying for animal rights? it's easy to pick on the ones who APPEAR to be unserious and frivolous, but it is a mistake to overlook the ones who are nothing like that.

true. it doesn't even matter, really - it's clothing.

Childhood is all about finding boundaries, testing limits. Seems natural for kids to take all kinds of behaviours to some extreme, just to see where the boundaries lie and how this or that suits them.

Kids are still rebelling against social attitudes from the 1950s, that don't even exist anymore. Why? Who knows, but eventually they figure it out.

Well done. You have just labeled all teenagers everywhere based on what a few immature thugs do.

And I'm extremely sceptical of putting any social problem purely down to biology. Blaming antisocial behaviour on biology completely ignores the fact that whole cultures teach boys to be 'tough', destructive, and unempathic.

My interpretation was that the OP recognized these thoughts in girls' heads, but thought that someone else had put them there. And "women" typically applies to adult females only. Clearly, we are including young girls in the discussion.

To me, it is obvious that the clothing marketed to females (I speak of clothing in the U.S. because that's what I know, but it applies to the burqua, etc. and likely clothing in other societies as well) is a sign of misogyny. The clothes are typically clearly designed to visually titillate whatever is currently considered sexy by heterosexual men, they are tighter and restrict movement more than the clothing marketed to males, even in the case where freedom of movement is essential (exercise clothing). The clothing is made of thinner, more delicate material, which suggests that it is primarily for show (in my experience wearing both kinds, clothing for women wears out faster). The palette of colors used mirror the sex-specific color codes (primary colors for males, some primary, but many pastels for females). All these things - controlling/restricting women's movement, regarding women's bodies as entertainment for men, sexed color codes that are part of keeping a clear division between male and female - are part of the oppression of women.

In some sense, they are doing what they want by dressing this way, however, what many people want is to fit in, be accepted, conform. So, they end up conforming to misogynistic clothing choices. Their "choice" is very restricted, because they face everything from ostracism to bullying by not conforming. Older women who are conforming influence girls. They buy this clothing for their daughters, often refusing to let them dress in a non-feminine manner, continuing the pressure/brainwashing cycle. Different excuses for the female dress code may be given - cultural, religious, etc., but it's all a front for misogyny.

It's obvious that few people would actually freely choose to wear the things marketed to females. Who wants to deal with the discomfort of having tiny shorts that stick up into one's asscrack all day? Take some high heels to a country where women win no social points for wearing them, and see how many you can convince to put up with the uncomfortable, even painful, difficult-to-walk-in, awkward things. But women are inured to discomforting clothing from a young age (scratchy tights, for example), and there is that pressure to conform.

As an average-looking grown woman approaching middle age who has always dressed modestly due to body issues and an off-kilter sense of style, I just want to say that the amount of cleavage or assage show seems to not have any effect on whether or not I get taken seriously. My ex used to pat me on the head and say, "Good girl," whenever I did something which he approved of, until I told him, "I'm not a f%^&ing Golden Retriever!"

I was reading about a writer (male) who was very absent minded and often would forget where he was going when he was halfway there because he was always thinking about his work. He is considered a genius. If I were to do the same exact thing (which I have, actually) I am considered a ditz. On the other hand, I don't have a huge body of literary masterpieces and deep, insightful newspaper columns to counter this impression.

So harsh. So vulgar. lol

No wonder we women aren't taken seriously -- we're quick to belittle and judge each and play the blame game. Like unhappy hens in a chicken coop, we squabble instead of finding common ground or offering guidance and maybe even a sense of decorum.

We women have met the enemy, and she is us.

(dude here)

do you girls realize that some thousands year back, we where all butt naked. Its Christianity that screw things up about nudity.

do you realize, that pear pressure cuts both ways. Back in old days, when you had to cover up, that too was pear pressure.

Pear pressure, affects what you want, it doesn't control you like a zombie.

as mentioned alredy, they are also evolutionary imperatives. Girls try to advertise to the males that .... they are "fertile".

Males must show that they dominate a bit women, then women get seduced, Or they don't get layed( nice guy), it means that he can provide for her. Also, when a woman is submissive, it amplifies the self esteem of the male, he takes more risks this way, in order to feed the kids and wife. Thats biological. Feminism is wrong. This is why women aren't taken seriously.

I wonder more about the question of how they can possibly be comfortable. That baffles me.

15 year olds do stupid things. I wore revealing clothing when I was 15, so what, and I still do. The only difference now is that I realize when to wear it, and when I would be getting unwanted attention. That's only relevant for my own safety, as well as for dressing professionally.

I refuse to take a political standpoint on American women's clothing. Are we not all allowed to make our own choices regarding sexuality and sexual expression? It seems that women get it worse when they try to express their sexuality, and that is not just limited to clothing (think about a typical teenage boy's pastime, and how it is accepted vs women doing the same...)

There is typical biology but there is no universal biology. In any species, individual phenotypes often deviate wildly from the norm. But animals don't have culture, there is no one forcing them to accept alien imperatives. That's the problem for humans - not ignoring biology but thinking there is an ideal biology for everyone. As a species we are so numerous and so phenotypically diverse (because of changes in natural selection) that it's foolish to assume there is any such thing as an ideal or universal biology. This is not true even among far less numerous and less diverse species.

I totally agree with this. Girls coming into womanhood (I say that very loosely) end up running into all kinds of invisible social constructions, taboos, and expectations.

When I was fifteen I wore lacy slips, marked up wife-beaters, and fishnet stockings. Not because I was trying to dress promiscuously but because I was testing the boundaries and my endurance against taboos (not that I knew that then). I also had a shaved head and unshaven legs--which compliment fishnet stockings nicely for a teenager who is sick of gender constrictions.

Girls are under so much pressure from the media to be valued by their sexuality. I don't think we can judge a girl by her clothing at all.

Tonight, when I went out, I got tons of unwanted attention without wearing revealing clothing. It's not really about me though is it. I don't oggle and drool over other people who seem to adhere to the gender ideal, and it's not my fault if others do. If girls don't get taken seriously, that's because some people don't want to take them seriously.

Reproduction imperatives are universal. If our ancestors didn't reproduced, we wouldn't be there, we are the descendent's of of the ones that reproduced. In evolution, reproduction is everything, its only thing that really counts in the end.

In times past, who would kill the bear, or the mammoth with just a stone spear? Girls? I mean seriously, do you people realize what it takes to do things like that?

Its funny that no woman has commented that yet. They are only feminists here? Maybe the feminists should talk things out with the bears and mammoths by them selves first. What i said its true, i'm standing by it. And i'm not some primitive Neanderthal.

meat was a very small part of the prehistoric diet, and most of the food our ancestors ate was gathered.... by BOTH men and women. and frankly, as far as the research has suggested, women were hunters too. so i think you're considering prehistory through an inaccurate (aka "flintstonized") lens.

none of which has anything to do with the erroneous idea that there is a universal biological drive towards specific gendered behaviours and preferences.

And nobody really talks about the quiet humble intellectual drably dressed 15 year old BOY either. you know, the one who's usually after the girl who you could describe with the exact same adjectives, because she's too busy swooning over either A: a member of some stupid boyband/actor or B: some popular jock or something. In both cases, a guy she's never gonna get. I've seen it a million times, and guys definitely do that too, but it seems to occur more in women, at least by my observation. I mean, I used to hear girls talk all the time about how they're gonna marry justin bieber or someone similar some day, but I've never heard that kind of thing from a guy. Usually with that kind of fantasy talk, it's about who they wish they could have sex with.