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MXH
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27 Mar 2013, 12:07 am

Geekonychus wrote:
MXH wrote:
Thing is a real solution to sexism has to take both sides into account. In both the victim and aggressor roles.
There's no easy "solution" to sexism but treating every argument like it's an equal two sided debate when one side is clearly wrong certainly isn't one. It's not misandry to call out a man for for saying sexist things. Sexism is misguided in all cases regardless of gender. But rather than aknowledging that, the "both sides" mindset basically just muddies the issue.


I don't think anyone has called that misandry. Though I have seen cases in here of the opposite happening. .



Geekonychus
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01 Apr 2013, 11:52 am

MXH wrote:
Geekonychus wrote:
MXH wrote:
Thing is a real solution to sexism has to take both sides into account. In both the victim and aggressor roles.
There's no easy "solution" to sexism but treating every argument like it's an equal two sided debate when one side is clearly wrong certainly isn't one. It's not misandry to call out a man for for saying sexist things. Sexism is misguided in all cases regardless of gender. But rather than aknowledging that, the "both sides" mindset basically just muddies the issue.


I don't think anyone has called that misandry. Though I have seen cases in here of the opposite happening. .

Nobody was straight up called it misandry but considering the fact that the go-to defensive response to calling out sexism is that "woman also engage in sexism" the implication is clear. Case in point:
MXH wrote:
I don't think anyone has called that misandry. Though I have seen cases in here of the opposite happening.

Rather than actually addressing my argument, you dismissed it then turned it around to make it about the opposite. This just reinforces my point about why the "both sides" mindset is counter productive to real discussions about the issue.



BlueMax
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01 Apr 2013, 6:07 pm

Geekonychus wrote:
MXH wrote:
Geekonychus wrote:
MXH wrote:
Thing is a real solution to sexism has to take both sides into account. In both the victim and aggressor roles.
There's no easy "solution" to sexism but treating every argument like it's an equal two sided debate when one side is clearly wrong certainly isn't one. It's not misandry to call out a man for for saying sexist things. Sexism is misguided in all cases regardless of gender. But rather than aknowledging that, the "both sides" mindset basically just muddies the issue.


I don't think anyone has called that misandry. Though I have seen cases in here of the opposite happening. .

Nobody was straight up called it misandry but considering the fact that the go-to defensive response to calling out sexism is that "woman also engage in sexism" the implication is clear. Case in point:
MXH wrote:
I don't think anyone has called that misandry. Though I have seen cases in here of the opposite happening.

Rather than actually addressing my argument, you dismissed it then turned it around to make it about the opposite. This just reinforces my point about why the "both sides" mindset is counter productive to real discussions about the issue.


Why does it have to be one OR the other, not BOTH?

I see more anger or frustration regarding women in L&D - sometimes justified, sometimes not. Is it genuine woman-hating misogyny though? Usually not - just someone venting their frustration over one or several bad experiences, not hating/attacking/abusing all women everywhere.

Calling a specific person out on their evil actions is NOT misandry or misogyny.

It also should be acknowledged that anger/frustration towards men is tolerated more (or fully expected and accepted) both here and in the real world.

Both misandry and misogyny happen on here and out there in the real world. LOTS of it. On BOTH sides.
It's all bad and needs to stop - simple as that.

It won't... mostly due to human nature, but it needs to.

Equality and fairness for all!



MXH
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04 Apr 2013, 11:42 pm

Geekonychus wrote:
MXH wrote:
Geekonychus wrote:
MXH wrote:
Thing is a real solution to sexism has to take both sides into account. In both the victim and aggressor roles.
There's no easy "solution" to sexism but treating every argument like it's an equal two sided debate when one side is clearly wrong certainly isn't one. It's not misandry to call out a man for for saying sexist things. Sexism is misguided in all cases regardless of gender. But rather than aknowledging that, the "both sides" mindset basically just muddies the issue.


I don't think anyone has called that misandry. Though I have seen cases in here of the opposite happening. .

Nobody was straight up called it misandry but considering the fact that the go-to defensive response to calling out sexism is that "woman also engage in sexism" the implication is clear. Case in point:
MXH wrote:
I don't think anyone has called that misandry. Though I have seen cases in here of the opposite happening.

Rather than actually addressing my argument, you dismissed it then turned it around to make it about the opposite. This just reinforces my point about why the "both sides" mindset is counter productive to real discussions about the issue.

See the thing is I didn't even address an argument. And to be honest its likely cause I don't see there being one. Its just like racism, it needs to be classified as racist from every angle and possibility before we try and do something about it.



Lucian
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26 Apr 2013, 2:07 am

I feel like I want to post more but I find much of the discussion on these boards depressing and alienating.
The male persecution complex on here is truly pathetic, probably worse than any other forum I've been on. Naively I thought people with AS would be more likely to question social conventions re sex and gender, obviously this is not the case.
The idea that misandry is as prevalent or as damaging as misogyny (on here or anywhere else) would be laughable if it wasn't such a common thing to hear.
(not a woman btw - hope it's ok for me to post this here)



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26 Apr 2013, 11:25 am

I think that sexist people are ignorant jerks who feel the need to put other people down. Also, nothing annoys me more than a woman who thinks her own gender is inferior.


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blue_bean
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27 Apr 2013, 6:46 am

Lucian wrote:
I feel like I want to post more but I find much of the discussion on these boards depressing and alienating.
The male persecution complex on here is truly pathetic, probably worse than any other forum I've been on. Naively I thought people with AS would be more likely to question social conventions re sex and gender, obviously this is not the case.
The idea that misandry is as prevalent or as damaging as misogyny (on here or anywhere else) would be laughable if it wasn't such a common thing to hear.
(not a woman btw - hope it's ok for me to post this here)


Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this. And it's true, of all the places I post at online this is the only place where I see negativity towards women at all.

I only realised just lately how much the attitudes here have affected my willingness to date an aspie guy. I can't help but see misogyny/bitterness towards women (and even nice guy syndrome) as a common male AS co-morbid now. If he's one he's likely to be the other and vice versa.



PsychoSarah
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29 Apr 2013, 10:19 am

The reason why sexism is so bad here is because autistic people expect "life" to follow rules more than most people, hence, women doing things beyond the stereotype is unfathomable. Since the female stereotypes usually are negative and favor men, the result is blatant sexism.



Geekonychus
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29 Apr 2013, 11:47 am

blue_bean wrote:
Lucian wrote:
I feel like I want to post more but I find much of the discussion on these boards depressing and alienating.
The male persecution complex on here is truly pathetic, probably worse than any other forum I've been on. Naively I thought people with AS would be more likely to question social conventions re sex and gender, obviously this is not the case.
The idea that misandry is as prevalent or as damaging as misogyny (on here or anywhere else) would be laughable if it wasn't such a common thing to hear.
(not a woman btw - hope it's ok for me to post this here)


Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this. And it's true, of all the places I post at online this is the only place where I see negativity towards women at all.

I only realised just lately how much the attitudes here have affected my willingness to date an aspie guy. I can't help but see misogyny/bitterness towards women (and even nice guy syndrome) as a common male AS co-morbid now. If he's one he's likely to be the other and vice versa.
Yeah......I've been quickly loosing interest since I'm sick of making the same argument only for it to be dismissed or ignored. Nobody wants to admit that thier attitudes are the real issue and untill they do, nothing will change.
Case in point.......

BlueMax wrote:
Why does it have to be one OR the other, not BOTH?

MXH wrote:
See the thing is I didn't even address an argument. And to be honest its likely cause I don't see there being one. Its just like racism, it needs to be classified as racist from every angle and possibility before we try and do something about it.

I swear to god, it's like talking to a wall sometimes. :x We refute them and they respond by ignoring what we say and repeating back the same tired argument they already made.........

It's like saying a news program can't do a segment on the holocaust without also giving equal time to a holocaust denier. There are NOT two equal sides to every issue and pretending there are is just a distraction technique.



BlueMax
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29 Apr 2013, 12:18 pm

Geekonychus wrote:
blue_bean wrote:
Lucian wrote:
I feel like I want to post more but I find much of the discussion on these boards depressing and alienating.
The male persecution complex on here is truly pathetic, probably worse than any other forum I've been on. Naively I thought people with AS would be more likely to question social conventions re sex and gender, obviously this is not the case.
The idea that misandry is as prevalent or as damaging as misogyny (on here or anywhere else) would be laughable if it wasn't such a common thing to hear.
(not a woman btw - hope it's ok for me to post this here)


Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this. And it's true, of all the places I post at online this is the only place where I see negativity towards women at all.

I only realised just lately how much the attitudes here have affected my willingness to date an aspie guy. I can't help but see misogyny/bitterness towards women (and even nice guy syndrome) as a common male AS co-morbid now. If he's one he's likely to be the other and vice versa.
Yeah......I've been quickly loosing interest since I'm sick of making the same argument only for it to be dismissed or ignored. Nobody wants to admit that thier attitudes are the real issue and untill they do, nothing will change.
Case in point.......

BlueMax wrote:
Why does it have to be one OR the other, not BOTH?

MXH wrote:
See the thing is I didn't even address an argument. And to be honest its likely cause I don't see there being one. Its just like racism, it needs to be classified as racist from every angle and possibility before we try and do something about it.

I swear to god, it's like talking to a wall sometimes. :x We refute them and they respond by ignoring what we say and repeating back the same tired argument they already made.........

It's like saying a news program can't do a segment on the holocaust without also giving equal time to a holocaust denier. There are NOT two equal sides to every issue and pretending there are is just a distraction technique.

Nice. Collect your brownie points. :roll:
The problem with your holocaust example is it actually happened, thus giving time to the denier is foolish.
Misandry AND misogyny both happen here and elsewhere - to deny that is also foolishness.



MjrMajorMajor
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29 Apr 2013, 12:33 pm

PsychoSarah wrote:
The reason why sexism is so bad here is because autistic people expect "life" to follow rules more than most people, hence, women doing things beyond the stereotype is unfathomable.


I don't see it as sexism as much a disillusionment, but this is a very good point. I think there's a lot of idealism along with less life experience. The greater the idealism, the harder the crash.



Spiderpig
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29 Apr 2013, 12:52 pm

Geekonychus wrote:
We refute them and they respond by ignoring what we say and repeating back the same tired argument they already made.........

It's like saying a news program can't do a segment on the holocaust without also giving equal time to a holocaust denier. There are NOT two equal sides to every issue and pretending there are is just a distraction technique.


There could be more than two, too.

Seriously, what would happen if people suddenly started acknowledging every refutation and stopped repeating old tired arguments? We might run out of stuff to argue about!



BlueMax
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29 Apr 2013, 1:12 pm

MjrMajorMajor wrote:
PsychoSarah wrote:
The reason why sexism is so bad here is because autistic people expect "life" to follow rules more than most people, hence, women doing things beyond the stereotype is unfathomable.


I don't see it as sexism as much a disillusionment, but this is a very good point. I think there's a lot of idealism along with less life experience. The greater the idealism, the harder the crash.


That's very well articulated... I agree with it heartily. I think that's what even hurt me the most, the failed expectations that;
courts would be fair,
friends would not betray each other
loved ones would not just stop loving one day.

It must be easier for the psyche of a pessimistic person with no expectations... no let-downs. Higher expectations feel like treachery when broken.

I was going to mention earlier when it was said (by more than one) they might not date aspie men because they seem so... bitter. If this is the reasoning behind it, you should! The benefits would hopefully include the guy giving the same attributes as he expects (like loyalty, kindness, unending love, etc.) in return. Also, by proving you're not the same type of woman who'd treated him with cruelty in his past, he'll appreciate you all the more!

I know I would... *




*(not that I'm a misogynist, though some have claimed such because I've occasionally dared to point out where something has become imbalanced and no longer equal or fair.)



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15 Jul 2013, 2:11 pm

meems wrote:
It's not that being offended is unacceptable, it's that a lot of women have left the site because of it, and several have expressed that they feel uncomfortable posting. I made a thread about it in the Haven and there were several women who said they feel unwelcome, one woman even said every time she comes here she ends up feeling horrible about herself, the sexism toward women is a real problem for some members, and women also saying sexist things does not make the frequent sexist comments about women any less of a problem.

If I chose to report every sexist post I see to a moderator, I wouldn't have any time left to actually participate on the forum.


Heh. I left in 2010 because of the sexism. Nice to see it's still going. :roll:


Tyri0n wrote:
This is a really awesome point. I think NT women, like NT men, are mindless drones who respond mechanically to cultural incentives, so it makes little sense to blame them for doing what is merely natural and logical, for doing what everyone EXPECTS them to do, and also for trying to protect themselves from the creepy hypersexual/porn/rape culture on the other side. Rather, blame the culture that causes them to behave that way.

Two things would fix the problem: (1) start by executing or castrating all sex offenders (and make trials much quicker and easier for the prosecution too). (2) Make "slut shaming" a crime, even for juveniles; maybe call it "harassment" or "hate speech." Women would be friendlier and less cruel almost immediately because then they wouldn't have to worry about safety as much.

Many sexual assaults are a power trip so castration wouldn't help some offenders. Like your other points though.

http://kateharding.net/2009/10/08/guest ... ing-maced/
http://goodmenproject.com/featured-cont ... sexuality/