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hurtloam
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13 Feb 2015, 4:59 pm

https://50shadesofabuse.wordpress.com/chapter-analyses-master-list/

I'm reading through this at the moment and finding it fascinating. Even without the commentary, the text from the book makes me uneasy as someone who has experienced an emotionally abusive relationship. I don't know how EL James managed to without the intent to (or so she says) write such a perfect example of a manipulative narcisist.

This blog has a lot of good advice about detecting the warning signs of an abusive partner. I wish I'd read this when I was a teenager.



ominous
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13 Feb 2015, 5:06 pm

That's fantastic. I wish I'd read something like that as well when I were younger. It's so bizarre how often we conflate controlling abuse by men with love or romance in our society.



OliveOilMom
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13 Feb 2015, 9:31 pm

I haven't read the book, but I have read that it's about BDSM. BDSM can easily be confused with abuse by people outside the scene. It can look like abuse, sound like abuse, and if it were done to someone who didn't agree to it and enjoy it, it would be abuse. Some people enjoy pain in a sexual way. Some people enjoy being restrained and some like pretending to be forced, yelled at, etc. It's all role play.

People usually do whats called negotiation before they start with a scene, or even a longer period of play where they both stay in the role they decided beforehand. While it looks like the dominant person is in charge, and while they usually are physically in charge, it's actually the submissive partner who is. Both parties spell out their limits and likes beforehand and they decide what kind of scene they want do to. There are many, many different kinds. They decide how far they can take things, where to draw the line, what the safe word is, etc. The dominant person should always respect that and usually does with people who are actually part of the BDSM scene and are experienced players. Someone's reputation as a player gets our very fast and if someone didn't respect a limit or in some way took the scene too far, the sub would certainly tell others exactly what the dom did and he would find himself with very, very few play partners before long.

I'm not sure if this book is like Nine and a Half Weeks, where the dom was actually abusive and there was no negotiation and it just didn't read at all like anything real, or whether it's more like the real thing. Of course if it's just erotica, many times the negotiation part is left out of the story because it's assumed that those who know about the scene know that negotiation took place, or that it's a fantasy of what a role play scene would be trying to copy.

If the accusation of abuse is about something other than the BDSM content of the book then that very well could be true, but it it's about the BDSM content, just remember that BDSM isn't real and it's simply something that looks and for a while feels like something else, but without the danger. There is so much more to the BDSM scene than just a few individual play sessions, and spanking someone or using a whip or handcuffs. It's very complicated and there are many things to take into consideration. It takes quite a while, dedication and more than just a casual interest to learn about a lot of the issues and responsibilities that are involved in BDSM.


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ominous
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13 Feb 2015, 9:49 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
I haven't read the book, but...


With exceptional literary gems such as

Quote:
"His pointer finger circled my puckered love cave. ‘Are you ready for this?’ he mewled, smirking at me like a mother hamster about to eat her three-legged young."


...I don't know how you could go past it. :lol: :wink:



OliveOilMom
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13 Feb 2015, 10:08 pm

ominous wrote:
OliveOilMom wrote:
I haven't read the book, but...


With exceptional literary gems such as

Quote:
"His pointer finger circled my puckered love cave. ‘Are you ready for this?’ he mewled, smirking at me like a mother hamster about to eat her three-legged young."


...I don't know how you could go past it. :lol: :wink:


Sounds like it's ridiculously over the top. I just hope it doesn't start up the idea that BDSM is abuse.


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WelcomeToHolland
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13 Feb 2015, 10:15 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
I haven't read the book, but I have read that it's about BDSM. BDSM can easily be confused with abuse by people outside the scene. It can look like abuse, sound like abuse, and if it were done to someone who didn't agree to it and enjoy it, it would be abuse. Some people enjoy pain in a sexual way. Some people enjoy being restrained and some like pretending to be forced, yelled at, etc. It's all role play.

People usually do whats called negotiation before they start with a scene, or even a longer period of play where they both stay in the role they decided beforehand. While it looks like the dominant person is in charge, and while they usually are physically in charge, it's actually the submissive partner who is. Both parties spell out their limits and likes beforehand and they decide what kind of scene they want do to. There are many, many different kinds. They decide how far they can take things, where to draw the line, what the safe word is, etc. The dominant person should always respect that and usually does with people who are actually part of the BDSM scene and are experienced players. Someone's reputation as a player gets our very fast and if someone didn't respect a limit or in some way took the scene too far, the sub would certainly tell others exactly what the dom did and he would find himself with very, very few play partners before long.

I'm not sure if this book is like Nine and a Half Weeks, where the dom was actually abusive and there was no negotiation and it just didn't read at all like anything real, or whether it's more like the real thing. Of course if it's just erotica, many times the negotiation part is left out of the story because it's assumed that those who know about the scene know that negotiation took place, or that it's a fantasy of what a role play scene would be trying to copy.

If the accusation of abuse is about something other than the BDSM content of the book then that very well could be true, but it it's about the BDSM content, just remember that BDSM isn't real and it's simply something that looks and for a while feels like something else, but without the danger. There is so much more to the BDSM scene than just a few individual play sessions, and spanking someone or using a whip or handcuffs. It's very complicated and there are many things to take into consideration. It takes quite a while, dedication and more than just a casual interest to learn about a lot of the issues and responsibilities that are involved in BDSM.


I dated a guy who couldn't get off unless I was in pain- he did this BDSM stuff, tying me up and hitting me. He really liked strangling. I didn't enjoy it at all and never agreed to it. ( I have exceptionally good taste in men :lol:). He actually ended up going to jail because one girl reported him after he strangled her. Since then, this concept just boggles my mind. I know it's supposed to be consensual but who would agree to it?!?!? Who would fantasize about injuring a loved one?! It's out of my realm of understanding. Not even in a judgemental way... It's just beyond me I guess.


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13 Feb 2015, 11:47 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
ominous wrote:
OliveOilMom wrote:
I haven't read the book, but...


With exceptional literary gems such as

Quote:
"His pointer finger circled my puckered love cave. ‘Are you ready for this?’ he mewled, smirking at me like a mother hamster about to eat her three-legged young."


...I don't know how you could go past it. :lol: :wink:


Sounds like it's ridiculously over the top. I just hope it doesn't start up the idea that BDSM is abuse.


I have friends who are in the BDSM scene. Everything is upfront and agreed upon before hand. Safe words can be used at anytime. It's roll playing. It doesn't flip my switch, but I wouldn't call it abuse by any stretch.

I wouldn't waste my time with that movie because the two main characters have all the sizzling, sexual chemistry of wet dry wall.



mangerlecole
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14 Feb 2015, 1:31 am

Fifty Shades of Grey really bothers me for those exact same reasons. Christian Grey is a controlling, abusive, misogynistic stalker, and if the author doesn't see that, I feel sorry for her because she CLEARLY doesn't have access to information on healthy relationships. Active consent, respect, mutual pleasure are necessary in order to have a healthy sexual relationship, no matter what the couple enjoys doing in the bedroom. Fifty Shades of Grey portrays an abusive relationship and sends the message that such a relationship is sexy and romantic. It also misrepresents the BDSM community, and it's really annoying to have to explain to people that I'm okay with consenting adults participating in BDSM, but not with Fifty Shades of Grey. I've had people ask me why I'm against sex between consenting adults when I've expressed dislike for Fifty Shades of Grey, and I've been told by others that even consensual BDSM is abusive. When will people learn the difference between someone being forced into BDSM and consenting adults engaging in BDSM because they enjoy that sort of thing? Seriously...



hurtloam
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14 Feb 2015, 3:34 am

OliveOilMom wrote:
I haven't read the book,

Then why are you commenting. You obviously haven't clicked on the link I shared either because..
Quote:
If the accusation of abuse is about something other than the BDSM content.


Yes the criticism is about the other content.

Just for other readers of this thread I will put this in bold and capitals before it gets derailed:


THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT BDSM


That's why people who have issues with the way Christian behaves from the beginning don't get heard, it's because the conversation quickly derails into, but it's BDSM.



OliveOilMom
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14 Feb 2015, 10:10 pm

hurtloam wrote:
OliveOilMom wrote:
I haven't read the book,

Then why are you commenting. You obviously haven't clicked on the link I shared either because..
Quote:
If the accusation of abuse is about something other than the BDSM content.


Yes the criticism is about the other content.

Just for other readers of this thread I will put this in bold and capitals before it gets derailed:


THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT BDSM


That's why people who have issues with the way Christian behaves from the beginning don't get heard, it's because the conversation quickly derails into, but it's BDSM.


Chill hon, it's just a comment on an internet forum.


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elkclan
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15 Feb 2015, 11:42 am

I had a look at that site. It's good. I couldn't continue reading because I hated the book so much and it was reminding me why I did.

To be fair to BDSM fans, the site not only highlights abuse but also highlights where Christian's behaviour deviates from accepted BDSM practice.



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15 Feb 2015, 12:41 pm

I've never read the book but I've read the synopsis provided in the link. The man is a pedophile, she's a child! Seriously, I don't care if she is 48, the is not a grown woman.

Also this is not a book about BDSM, this is a book about abuse. Plain and simple. BDSM is not just beating the hell out of each other in the bed room. Communication, respect, and boundaries are all essential in BDSM. Letting your partner have control is about trust, you have to trust them to know and respect your boundaries and respect the safe word.



hurtloam
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15 Feb 2015, 1:22 pm

Sorry Olivoilmom, I didn't mean to come over quite so snippy. Just read back what I wrote. I was in a hurry yesterday and didn't have much time to type or think about what I was typing.



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17 Feb 2015, 11:17 pm

I've read parts of the book, but could never sit through it. I think many of the complaints are about actions outside of the BDSM scenes, such as Christian Grey showing up uninvited at her workplace (he wasn't told where it was, I think) after their first meeting, wanting her to work at his company so she could be kept close at all times, and a variety of other behaviors.



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25 Feb 2015, 1:56 am

hurtloam wrote:


Unfortunately, looks like the author of that site had to take it down. I hadn't had a chance to read all the way through it yet, but it looked like an excellent analysis of the book.

Thought I might offer this as a substitute. This is a great post on IMDB that sums up why the story is about abuse.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2322441/boa ... #240301175



hurtloam
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25 Feb 2015, 2:04 pm

Oh that's a shame. She really wrote it well, from a relationship point of view. Made me think a lot about my relationship with my first boyfriend. I never got to finish finish reading. I had taken a break because it was bringing back too many bad memories.