Do aspie women not use their feminine wiles like NT women?

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Azureth
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21 Jul 2016, 8:45 pm

I have always thought for aspie women using their feminine wiles for personal gain would be significantly harder than for NT women. NT Women can use it to say get something she wants from men, or get out of a ticket as well as a few other things, but is that not the case for aspie women? Are there any women here that have managed to successfully use their feminine wiles to get something?



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21 Jul 2016, 9:27 pm

In my own observations, AS women seem to dislike and avoid any form of social game-playing, of which flirting is one form, though AS women are a diverse group. Some of us may view flirting as "putting on an act" and/or as submissive, or affected behaviour, a disliked form of "affectation".

From other AS women I know, their personal values seem to rank honesty and being authentic highly. So not flirting for them also stems from and reflects their values. I fit into that group too.

Most probably there are also AS women who want to flirt and are not confident about it - perhaps more commonly young teenage/early adult AS girls perhaps are still on a learning curve re this and it may be a lack of confidence thing for them rather than avoidance of flirting behaviour per se (particularly if they have little or no peer support from other young women in their age group?)

I think AS woman Liane Wiley may have written about this issue in her very useful book "Pretending to Be Normal", though it is a long time since I read it and could be mistaken about that.



Britte
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21 Jul 2016, 10:51 pm

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Last edited by Britte on 22 Jul 2016, 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

wilburforce
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22 Jul 2016, 12:25 am

Azureth wrote:
I have always thought for aspie women using their feminine wiles for personal gain would be significantly harder than for NT women. NT Women can use it to say get something she wants from men, or get out of a ticket as well as a few other things, but is that not the case for aspie women? Are there any women here that have managed to successfully use their feminine wiles to get something?


This is bullshit--it's not something only NT females do. All attractive people use their attractiveness to get things from other people. Guys can get away with this just as easily as women can, because both men and women can be equally shallow and easily manipulated by attractive people.

Also, I don't think these kind of sexist discussions started by male OPs are what this forum is for. This thread should be tossed.


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traven
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22 Jul 2016, 12:40 am

yes, i mean me
i see women around me being the commander of their men
i can't, i don't know how to

i have nothing much , no nice clothes or personal possesions, because i have to ask for it
but meltdown/cry and you get accused of playing that to get your way



Dreamsea
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22 Jul 2016, 9:30 am

wilburforce wrote:

This is bullshit--it's not something only NT females do. All attractive people use their attractiveness to get things from other people. Guys can get away with this just as easily as women can, because both men and women can be equally shallow and easily manipulated by attractive people.

Also, I don't think these kind of sexist discussions started by male OPs are what this forum is for. This thread should be tossed.


Not every woman has feminine wiles. I agree that it's all about physical attractiveness.



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22 Jul 2016, 9:36 am

traven wrote:
yes, i mean me
i see women around me being the commander of their men
i can't, i don't know how to

i have nothing much , no nice clothes or personal possesions, because i have to ask for it
but meltdown/cry and you get accused of playing that to get your way



Right. If I cry, no one cares. They'll consider me faking, trying to get my way, etc. I have no power when it comes to influencing others. Not all women have feminine wiles. Usually, attractive women with average to good social skills can do stuff like avoid recieving police tickets, get their way, control men, etc.



Amity
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22 Jul 2016, 10:37 am

What are feminine wiles? ...something that another person views as superficial charm, is it done purposefully, could a smile be a female wile?



kraftiekortie
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22 Jul 2016, 2:04 pm

I'm a guy. There is such thing as "feminine wiles. But they are much less commonly used these days than they were in the old days, the days before Woman's Lib and Feminism.

They were a means of survival, actually. Before the 20th century, one must remember, women had few legal rights in the Western World.

Women used to use their bodies, their overall charm, and their scent to enchant men, so that the man would do things for them that they would never do for other men. This gained them preferential treatment in lots of areas of life.

Obviously, the oppression of women in those days counterbalanced the use of "feminine wiles," and vice versa. A woman had to be clever to not be oppressed.

These days, "feminine wiles" is still occasionally employed in certain situations. To gain the upper hand in a relationship, to get to the front of a line at a store, stuff like that.

I would say that most women, these days, don't employ "feminine wiles."



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22 Jul 2016, 9:07 pm

Tbh I don't know any women with "feminine wiles." There are a lot of awkward NT women too, it's not just a ND thing.

Attractive people often so get their way and better treated but usually don't have to put effort in lol. Like girls getting free coffee at Starbucks from male baristas without flirting in any way shape or form. I've also seen that happen occasionally in reverse with men (though it's less common because women are less dumb about that stuff overall).


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kraftiekortie
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22 Jul 2016, 9:27 pm

I've seen "feminine wiles" used on the train when a woman wants to persuade a guy to do something which he is reluctant to do. It's cute, in a way.

A woman can use her charm, and her pleasing manner to persuade. Men can't really do that.



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22 Jul 2016, 9:31 pm

Perceptions of what flirting actually is are subjective. Some males interpret a smile from a female during a brief social encounter as "flirting". Women more realistically seem to view flirting as a set of behaviours deliberately adopted and portrayed by someone (male or female) for a specific purpose.

I do know an extremely capable, extrovert NT woman well, who flirts blatantly with 1) anyone she wants to recruit to her circle of friends or romantic interests 2) when networking professionally. She is quite open (at least to me) about the nature, purpose and impact of adopting this behavioural style for far more than narrow sexual benefit. I remember students who flirted with professors/tutors/lecturers before end of year university exams too, both male and female. And I saw a few of both sexes taken sexual advantage of as a result of that, in a way that was grossly unethical (but ignored then) and is not ignored now (progress in the decades since the 1980s!!)



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23 Jul 2016, 1:22 am

I don't have feminine wiles. I come across as awkward and creepy when I try to pretend I do, and end up scaring men away.



lidsmichelle
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23 Jul 2016, 7:59 am

Chronos wrote:
I don't have feminine wiles. I come across as awkward and creepy when I try to pretend I do, and end up scaring men away.

I have never tried but I suspect I'd come across as awkward and creepy as well. When I do attempt to flirt just to flirt I already know I'm being creepy and awkward because try to compensate for my normal lack of facial expressiveness and end up overdoing it lol. My attempts to "look" flirtatious to make sure someone knows I am indeed flirting probably make me look like a predator.


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clay5
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24 Jul 2016, 4:29 am

^^^^ Same here. I don't think they'd see me as a threat though, more like some kind of joke.



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24 Jul 2016, 8:54 am

I have the charm, the attraction, and just practically any willing flirts would like to have.

But I never took advantage of it. I can use it, yet I'm as clueless as and even if I could do well, I HATE doing it.
Doing so wouldn't be 'me' at all unless I'm my own mom or my own sister, or some false self who's afraid of herself. Seriously, just because I could, doesn't mean I would. :|

I prefer being untouchable to some extent. :lol: Because I hate the social game and I prefer to stay out of it.


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