Asperger's vs. childhood abuse

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I'm in the middle of the process of getting a diagnosis of AS. I don't know if I'll be lucky, but I need to try, because it's the only way I might get a monthly allowance to live on from the gov't - and I obviously can't work anymore, constantly fired for no apparent reason.

Within the framework of the diagnosis, the Psychiatrist is totally adamant that she must speak to the therapist that treated me for the last 10 years. So I had to call this therapist to tell her she'd be getting a call. It was so saddening to, once again, as usual when I talk to her, see how she has absolutely no idea what AS is nor wishes to learn, and totally believes my problems with society are purely an antagonism I do unconsciously but on purpose in order to avenge my abusive childhood.

Nobody who had an abusive childhood, however abusive (and mine wasn't really very abusive) is completely rejected by society. Survivors of childhood abuse aren't nearly as outcast as we Aspies are. Childhood abuse survivors aren't fired from all jobs with vague or no reasons given. But she won't see this. She won't see the magnitude of how totally rejected I am regardless how hard I try. She'll change the subject when I tell her that if 30 years of therapies didn't help, it should be a sign that my problems are not psychological. It's so saddening to see how my reality is dismissed, ignored, looked the other way.

I don't know how one applies for disability allowance in the middle east, but in the USA, you need a lawyer. You also need a different therapist if you can get one!

I had a verbally abusive mother. That is not why I have AS. However, family and professionals blamed my poor mother for years. I was traumatized by her treatment, but it did not create AS.

AAAAGGGHHHH! Bruno Bettleheim is dead and I thought his horrible Refrigerator Mother theory died with him. For 50 years therapists had the idea that the difficulties of AS were caused by horrible parents (well, horrible mothers, nobody seemed to notice fathers)/ The advances in neurology of the late 80's and into the 90's put a stop to that nonsense in most circles. I hope you can go therapist shopping and find one who isn't still clinging to that theory.

Good luck with your endeavor. I hope it works out, despite this therapist.

this is sad, and i've occasionally wondered about this. i had a therapist who tended to see every difficulty--even my highly varying attention span (hyperfocus alternating with "scattered") as symptoms related to abuse. i'm not sure why this is so, but it is frustrating when it happens. doubly sad that she refuses to educate herself about AS. it could become a vicious cycle--she may forever be trying to "treat" you for AS traits, going under the assumption that they're actually related to abuse. of course, this will get things nowhere, and possibly cause a lot of unnecessary frustration on both sides.

you're not bound to stay with her if things aren't working--you pay her; she genuinely is supposed to be working for you. i don't know if that helps, but i've needed to have been told that in the past. it really is fine to look for someone else to work with, and to "shop" for one you feel comfortable with. if a clinician is worth the time, s/he won't mind asking questions or having you come in for a few trial sessions before you make a choice.

just a few things i'm learning myself. i hope they help.

yOUR POST sorry for caps, is somewhat degrading towards those brave people who endure the pain and silence and their trauma people on this forum know that I perticularly feel for the courage of the souls who suffered mental and verbal trauma

here is why child abuse victims have it worse;
Firstly in most cases they are treated as objects for sex and verbal punching bags, usually hurt as well in most cases.
Tey are often incarserated emotionally or psyichally to make sure the abuser's secret is kept
They find it difficult to assosiate with people because their terrible predicament so to tell or not to tell in most cases they feel the case is normal and have grown up with it and feel it is ok
also especially in verbal cases the victim is told that they are nothing and worthless also with mental abuse

I think it is clear that abuse victims especially as children are worse off and plus they develope a form of PTSD which by what I have read is very traumatising

I think what you said is very petty and inconsiderate towards those, we have autism but it is pre set in our heads we are naturally outsiders but for child abuse victims it is not pre set and they mentally forced tothat situation

Well someone with AS can certainly be abused. Lacking common sense and the social skills to respond "correctly" does quite frequently lead to being treated like crap.
Have you been diagnosed with PTSD as well? I don't know about your abuse/trauma issues so I certainly can't know whether they may or may not be responsible for some of your issues, but it's not like AS and PTSD are mutually exclusive. I think therapists also just don't want to deal with aspies a lot of times, it's difficult to treat. I'm not sure if this is more because conventional therapy methods don't work, or because the type of person who becomes a therapist (social and generally non-scientific) just isn't likely to understand aspies very well.

agree with maggie because Aspergers is sodifficult to diagnose and I have some psychologists in the family and have frequantly had clientell asking for diagnosis and in their esperience its hell for them as they are not in the learning disability side and aspergers itself is very hard as some people may lets just say be dyslexic and very bipolar etc

I remember talking with y cousin about it she could not be accurate but she mentioned an aspie who came in and she said he was clearly very sheltered and as some of you may know som aspies are not the very open to suggestion and critisism, I know especilly critisism but I am ready for advice as hence it is their job and my cousin said it was pretty much one of her most hellish experiences for a long time and frankly she did not want another aspie in her office for a while as he was incredibly demanding saying she was not qualified and that she was cra at her job, just for saying maybe he was taking people too literally and just to take things too literally and that sometimes he should just ignore people sometimes and ask on his own devices

poor girl hehe

actually to maggie my cousin is currently doing her educatio psychology as long as being a therapist and psychologist and shes only 25 so I am very proud of her and she can cope and understand them being a very intellectual woman and outsider but she sometimes hates how blah they are you know especially if we get ocked on to things and won't let it go

I cosign on this, Maggiedoll, as I have found that when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Therapists are trained however they are trained and that becomes a pattern for them, and so they look for in each of their patients the sort of behaviour that proves what ever training they have had.

OMG your therapist reminds me so much of my parents. they admit i have AS, but is totally blind to the magnitude of the situation, the reality of it's effects. as if i have it in name only. i suspect they haven't looked into it thoroughly and to try to solve that i've pretty much compounded comprehensive data about it, it's far-reaching affects, the magnitude with which it impacts my life and and affects my ability to function. but i swear they don't really take it seriously. they seem to think that i can will myself to function like the rest of them; that it will not last forever, that it gets better with time, that it's a phase of some kind etc. all the while they're treating me like an NT and get mad at my shortcomings and can't seem to understand why i can't seem to get a job (interviews have never gone well. they're too social, i'm too off-putting, and i can't answer their open-ended questions the way they want me to), why i haven't been dating, why i don't have many friends (and what friends i do have they tend to assume are sketchy or weird by association to me. they certainly are more lax regarding my siblings friends anyways), etc. and it all just makes me feel worse about it than i would've in the first place.

sometimes i wish i could put them in my shoes for a week and watch them slowly break down under the pressure, expectations, stress, uncertainty, and depression that i've somehow managed to live with constantly for 19 years.

maybe they should invent an "in your shoes" therapy course for parents of AS people where they can hypnotize them into believing they've lived years with the symptoms and the implications, or at least be able to imagine it. it is an underrated disorder

I wonder if that may be partly because many think Aspies are argumentative, even if often they don't intend on being that way? If they're lacking some language pragmatics/interpersonal communication skills, then the therapist may think they're being argumentative, or not understand them. If communication is bad, then I think it may possibly get in the way of therapy?

Just something I was thinking about.

hasn't this topic got somewhat diluded lol I was looking for some decent resons why aspergics people have it so hard, no offense but most aspies other than myself have been oh woe is me I just can't cope with life blah blah blah, To most I seem like a p***k but I only speak the truth because if you don't grab a spoon you won't get into the ie cream party

with hyperer sensitivity i am fully sympathetic with
however with people saying espspically the whole collapse under preasure biz no I have seen blind and deaf people be socially intergrated used to be practically mute now I don't shut u probably because of the mantra life's what you make it, if you feel like giving in *here's a twelve boar* now just go to the back of the shed because I think in honesty not a lot of people are very sypathetic

now to the finale the aspergers vs child abuse being verbally, pshysically or sexually or even in most cases all three

firstly the aspie side, and as read I am not going to really give a damn lol because I think in most cases the person makes the condition not te condition makes the person

aspie
sensitive to certain noises, visuals and pther textues
brain wired to not understand social situation
wired to be unsympathic
many other issues to do with other disabilities, e.g. depression, schitzophrenia, bi polar, OCD
takes up random interests, some do

abuse victim
raped mercilessly from very young age some cases as young as 2

there is really no point continuing lol if I made a full list the poor abuse victim wins anyway

This is a really great, articulate way of describing what its like to be AS, and I wish I could have said it like this to my parents, but when I was a kid nobody knew it existed.

This is true, but some people are better equipped to deal with it than others. People with a scientific mind sometimes actually enjoy it. I "argue" with my fiance over stupid little stuff all the time, but he doesn't mind it; he calls it "bratting" and says that it's fun. When you're talking about facts, argument is in the perception. NTs tend to read into aspies as though what we're saying came from an NT, in a similar way as aspies tend NOT to read into things NTs say, because we probably wouldn't have had that hidden double meaning that they tend to put into things. (Ok, I'm not sure I worded that correctly. I mean like how aspies take things at face value and usually say things with a "face value" meaning, so reading more into it is seeing something that isn't there.) Therapists are all about reading into everything.


Stevee, you're taking an extremely narrow view of abuse. There are plenty of people with lots of abuse issues that aren't exactly what YOU consider abuse issues to be. That's horrible and offensive to say that if someone isn't abused in the way that you think of abuse, that it just didn't happen. There are other ways of being abused than what you said. What you said was far beyond insensitive, even for an aspie. Discounting somebody's childhood abuse is just horrid. You've mentioned not having shame, but seriously, some things are shameful. What you said falls into that category.

Is your psychotherapist an autism specialist? If not, maybe you're better off making an appointment with an autism specialist. Maybe you can find one through the government disability department. I heard that a specialist will put you through all kinds of exams.

Sean, I know what you mean about them not accepting the AS even if they can't deny that you have AS because you've been diagnosed. For them, you can always make a bigger effort to look normal, no matter how big an effort you've made all your life and it didn't work.

These therapists are so out of touch with reality that even though they have no formal education in treating prosopagnosia , hyper-focus, lack of social intuition, or any other of our symptoms, they're totally sure that they can cure all symptoms together with psychotherapy.

Besides, the reasons for rejection of Aspies are so subtle in humans that these therapists don't believe that what may have caused someone to reject you may have been a long string of behaviors such as not recognizing them in the market, hyper-focusing to the exclusion of them talking to you, missing non-verbal cues, failing to white lie to them in the right occasions, etc. They automatically jump to the conclusion that if you're rejected it's because you hurt people's feelings, and if you hurt people's feelings it's because you're carrying anger from your childhood. I was treated for aggressivity from childhood for 30 years. Therapists never believed me that people just walk away; they won't consider the possibility that I'm not lying when I tell them There.Was.No.Quarrel, dammit. They'll ignore my saying so and continue stubbornly looking for where I was aggressive in the last interaction with a person. They won't consider that maybe the person left because of something other than our last meeting . For them, you're as good as your last performance with someone.

I know childhood abuse is a differential diagnosis for an ASD, but I don't think this means as an adult, rather as a child who displays autistic-like behaviour due to abuse.