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pandd
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02 Aug 2009, 4:00 am

SteveeVader wrote:
yOUR POST sorry for caps, is somewhat degrading towards those brave people who endure the pain and silence and their trauma people on this forum know that I perticularly feel for the courage of the souls who suffered mental and verbal trauma

here is why child abuse victims have it worse;

Ok, so I think maybe that you have interpreted the title of this thread to mean something quite different to the meaning the OP intended.

The thread is about a situation where someone who believes they have AS has been involved with a therapist. This therapist has no expertise in regards to AS, and is assuming anything and everything can be explained by the OP having being abused as a child. The OP believes that symptoms and issues that are present in their instance, and which are explained by AS are not explained by child abuse.

The OP is not in any way discussing whether it is worse to have AS or worse to have suffered child abuse. Nothing of that nature was part of the discussion.



outlier
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02 Aug 2009, 4:38 am

Greentea wrote:
These therapists are so out of touch with reality that even though they have no formal education in treating prosopagnosia , hyper-focus, lack of social intuition, or any other of our symptoms, they're totally sure that they can cure all symptoms together with psychotherapy.


Yes, this is a widespread problem. I don't see things shifting for many years, perhaps even decades. I am amazed at how you managed to put up with the therapist for a decade. The longest I was able to tolerate that kind of treatment was a few months because it was so damaging and invalidates your reality, which is a form of abuse.



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02 Aug 2009, 6:57 am

I don't know how child abuse could be causing Aspie traits, unless the therapist is referring to reactive attachment disorder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactive_attachment_disorder). And if they did mean RAD, autism must be ruled out first. Besides, if your problems do result form child abuse, if they are significant enough to impair your job performance (as they seem to do), there must be something more going on than just child abuse, eg. PTSD causing yout o be too socially anxious to participate. I'm not saying you have that, but that child abuse alone cannot be used as a reason for disability. Of course that doesn't mean that child abuse isn't serious, but it is not a DSM/ICD diagnosis, so social security won't accept it.

However, I guess your therapist doesn't need to believe in AS for the psychiatrist to assess you. My parents don't believe I have AS either, and yet I was diagnosed twice on the basis of interviews with them.



Greentea
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02 Aug 2009, 8:57 am

ChangelingGirl wrote:
Besides, if your problems do result form child abuse, if they are significant enough to impair your job performance (as they seem to do), there must be something more going on than just child abuse, eg. PTSD


I hadn't thought about this. You're right! Wow, this is mind-blowing insight. 8O 8O Till now, I was desperate trying to get diagnosed with AS, and dreading that I'd be found not to have AS. Now I see that it doesn't matter if I have AS or not - what matters is that I have something serious enough to justify getting a DSM diagnosis and help, because I can't support myself and I can't form any kind of relationships.

And specialists can't just dismiss me, as they've done till now, saying that all I have is childhood trauma - "childhood trauma" alone doesn't account for the severe problems I have. If it's that severe childhood trauma, then it's PTSD, and has a whole different treatment than just "childhood trauma".

And since I can't support myself, telling me to do more (another 30 years?) therapy cannot be the treatment indicated. If someone has an urgent condition, you don't indicate a treatment that starts showing effects in years.

You've provided me not only with a whole new perspective on myself and my problems, but also with a simple, short, to the point phrase that I can easily use with all those specialists that tell me "You don't have AS, you just have a difficult character / a traumatic childhood": "Whatever it is I have, I can't support myself or form any kind of relationships, so it's serious enough to require an urgent diagnosis and help."


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Maggiedoll
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02 Aug 2009, 9:40 am

Greentea wrote:
ChangelingGirl wrote:
Besides, if your problems do result form child abuse, if they are significant enough to impair your job performance (as they seem to do), there must be something more going on than just child abuse, eg. PTSD


I hadn't thought about this. You're right! Wow, this is mind-blowing insight. 8O 8O Till now, I was desperate trying to get diagnosed with AS, and dreading that I'd be found not to have AS. Now I see that it doesn't matter if I have AS or not - what matters is that I have something serious enough to justify getting a DSM diagnosis and help, because I can't support myself and I can't form any kind of relationships.

And specialists can't just dismiss me, as they've done till now, saying that all I have is childhood trauma - "childhood trauma" alone doesn't account for the severe problems I have. If it's that severe childhood trauma, then it's PTSD, and has a whole different treatment than just "childhood trauma".

And since I can't support myself, telling me to do more (another 30 years?) therapy cannot be the treatment indicated. If someone has an urgent condition, you don't indicate a treatment that starts showing effects in years.

You've provided me not only with a whole new perspective on myself and my problems, but also with a simple, short, to the point phrase that I can easily use with all those specialists that tell me "You don't have AS, you just have a difficult character / a traumatic childhood": "Whatever it is I have, I can't support myself or form any kind of relationships, so it's serious enough to require an urgent diagnosis and help."


Wait, this doesn't make sense.. I was kinda under the impression that you HAD been diagnosed with PTSD, but I guess that doesn't quite make sense given the other stuff you've said. How can they say that the issues that have kept you in therapy for 30 years are abuse-related but that there's not any kind of PTSD involved?
(Actually, the fact that you didn't connect that is another indicator of AS.. I think it's part of the whole not-seeing-the-bigger-picture thing.)



Greentea
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02 Aug 2009, 10:23 am

Maggie, I don't have any of the symptoms of PTSD, and therapists don't think I have PTSD either. In any case, PTSD wouldn't account for total rejection from society either. What they say is that I have childhood trauma that causes me to be aggressive because unconsciously I want to avenge my childhood.

However, I don't believe them. There are zillions of people out there taking their traumatic childhoods out on others, and they do have friends and spouses and jobs. Even if it were true that I'm more aggressive than other people, their correlation that "only aggressiveness and aggressiveness alone can cause total rejection" is not proven by any scientific research or common sense. But all therapists and Psychiatrists I've seen in my life make this assumption and aren't open to discussing it. It's not to be questioned, however inaccurate it is.


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gramirez
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02 Aug 2009, 12:01 pm

Seanmw wrote:
Greentea wrote:
I'm in the middle of the process of getting a diagnosis of AS. I don't know if I'll be lucky, but I need to try, because it's the only way I might get a monthly allowance to live on from the gov't - and I obviously can't work anymore, constantly fired for no apparent reason.

Within the framework of the diagnosis, the Psychiatrist is totally adamant that she must speak to the therapist that treated me for the last 10 years. So I had to call this therapist to tell her she'd be getting a call. It was so saddening to, once again, as usual when I talk to her, see how she has absolutely no idea what AS is nor wishes to learn, and totally believes my problems with society are purely an antagonism I do unconsciously but on purpose in order to avenge my abusive childhood.

Nobody who had an abusive childhood, however abusive (and mine wasn't really very abusive) is completely rejected by society. Survivors of childhood abuse aren't nearly as outcast as we Aspies are. Childhood abuse survivors aren't fired from all jobs with vague or no reasons given. But she won't see this. She won't see the magnitude of how totally rejected I am regardless how hard I try. She'll change the subject when I tell her that if 30 years of therapies didn't help, it should be a sign that my problems are not psychological. It's so saddening to see how my reality is dismissed, ignored, looked the other way.


OMG your therapist reminds me so much of my parents. they admit i have AS, but is totally blind to the magnitude of the situation, the reality of it's effects. as if i have it in name only. i suspect they haven't looked into it thoroughly and to try to solve that i've pretty much compounded comprehensive data about it, it's far-reaching affects, the magnitude with which it impacts my life and and affects my ability to function. but i swear they don't really take it seriously. they seem to think that i can will myself to function like the rest of them; that it will not last forever, that it gets better with time, that it's a phase of some kind etc. all the while they're treating me like an NT and get mad at my shortcomings and can't seem to understand why i can't seem to get a job (interviews have never gone well. they're too social, i'm too off-putting, and i can't answer their open-ended questions the way they want me to), why i haven't been dating, why i don't have many friends (and what friends i do have they tend to assume are sketchy or weird by association to me. they certainly are more lax regarding my siblings friends anyways), etc. and it all just makes me feel worse about it than i would've in the first place.

sometimes i wish i could put them in my shoes for a week and watch them slowly break down under the pressure, expectations, stress, uncertainty, and depression that i've somehow managed to live with constantly for 19 years.

maybe they should invent an "in your shoes" therapy course for parents of AS people where they can hypnotize them into believing they've lived years with the symptoms and the implications, or at least be able to imagine it. it is an underrated disorder

*sigh*, I'm in almost the exact same situation as you. :(


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jamieg
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02 Aug 2009, 12:05 pm

doctors like to blame all problems on abuse and trauma even after they are not able to find proof of any so they do not have to admit autism is possible

doctors need to learn that when there is no proof of what they want to find then that means that what they want to find does not exist so look for a different reason for things so stop telling us just still have to be even with no actual proof



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02 Aug 2009, 12:22 pm

jamieg wrote:
so they do not have to admit autism is possible


But why would a Psychiatrist want to not admit autism as a cause?

Sr. Ramirez, would you care to share a bit?


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LiendaBalla
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02 Aug 2009, 4:34 pm

Greentea wrote:
What they say is that I have childhood trauma that causes me to be aggressive because unconsciously I want to avenge my childhood.

However, I don't believe them. There are zillions of people out there taking their traumatic childhoods out on others, and they do have friends and spouses and jobs.


I do that. I act out on other people offline because of my childhood. That's not AS related, just like you said! If they have no evidence that you are mean, then they are blowing you out of perportion.

Greentea wrote:
"only aggressiveness and aggressiveness alone can cause total rejection"


I agrees that that line is BS. I have seen plenty of dependable people get rejected.



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02 Aug 2009, 5:47 pm

LiendaBalla wrote:
I have seen plenty of dependable people get rejected.


For what reasons were they rejected, if other than aggressivity and/or Autism? And are you talking about massive rejection, like in my case?


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SteveeVader
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02 Aug 2009, 7:03 pm

Greentea how old are you just wondering thats all?

As anger and feelings of massive rejection are related and ever so more prominant in certain age brackets my previous degree is in psychological afflictions especially in abuse, and maggiedoll that was a lamans round up if I had to do a list it will be extremely long

I am just very curious tof your age as what the psychologist is a universal theoy actually I can explain what it consists of but it would be several pages long and I don't have the tme lol,
but seriously as a previous poster said you really need to see an autism specialist, I don't know how difficult that will be in your part of the world bt in the uk its quite difficult so good luck to yu, in the uk a lot of autism specialists are actually educational psychologists or extremel senior psychologists of people in their 50s because a psychologist who can fully give and record a diagnosis in the UK is reletivly tough I can tell yo its going to be chllenging especially for older people and being 21 its bloody tough.
One reason your psychologist said this is most ikely
1, they are not at all prepared to give a detailed reason and diagnosis
2, they can only do with what they know
3, in the UK a psycholist would most likely say I can't deal with this situation its not my field so I really think you have a wrong psychologist

also have you had history with depression at all in your history as I think a psych can see your records in the uk they can but I don't know wat the deal is i the middle east I know they can in the US to depending on the situation

I feel sorry fo you as I kno what its like to seek resolution and no one listens but keep strong dude and its just a shame everyone's kinda on your case



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02 Aug 2009, 7:20 pm

I'm not going to claim you do not have aspergers, but like i said in one of your previous threads, your aspergers may not be causing your problems. You say you have been bullied and you say you are overly-aggressive with people. That's what needs to be dealed with, a better diagnosis isn't going to help you at this stage. If you find that you can make yourself less aggressive and you still have issues, then maybe things need to be taken a step further. However, you seem to have tunnel vision, you seem to want the aspergers diagnosis, more than you wish to be helped. Therapists are not blind to this and this will put them off diagnosing you.



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02 Aug 2009, 7:24 pm

And God forbid I should ever express anger at something in a Psychology session or at a Psychiatrist's office, because then that instance is remembered forever as "the proof" for my being an outcast: anger problems.

My age? When? The first time I was diagnosed as having anger problems caused by childhood abuse instead of Autism or the last time? The first time I was 18, and the second one I was 47. Continent? The first one was the antipode of the current one.


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02 Aug 2009, 7:37 pm

Michjo wrote:
You say you have been bullied and you say you are overly-aggressive with people.


I suppose you're not talking to me, because I never said those things but exactly the opposite.


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Michjo
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02 Aug 2009, 7:53 pm

Greentea wrote:
Michjo wrote:
You say you have been bullied and you say you are overly-aggressive with people.


I suppose you're not talking to me, because I never said those things but exactly the opposite.

I was obviously talking to you, although i shall concede you may have not said those things, i find your posts hard to comprehend and i may have misread (Not meant as an insult). The rest of my post still stands, it's the image of yourself that you are projecting. If i can see it from writing online, then i imagine it's even easier for your therapist to see.

It should be easy for you to get some kind of help, if you find self-help skills and/or getting a job nearly impossible. You should be aiming for any diagnosis to begin with.