First time in history!! !! The NT/AS open hotline ! !! !! !

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I don't think she will understand the medical terms used but will understand the description of a shutdown, thanks.

I don't understand all of the medical terms either, but it gave me an understanding of what you are talking about, that I wasn't getting from other WP member's descriptions. Also it gives your experience validity. It's not something that you are just doing because your tired, or using as an excuse to get out having to do something unpleasant, which I would expect you to be accused of. And it's not something that is made better by what conventional wisdom would dictate.

I thought it was interesting that they seem to be recommending that all young children who show evidence of shyness be tested for this, and that repeated demands of a child to become more social when they have this condition can cause a shy child to become autistic. If this had been part of the conventional screening process in the early 1950's I would have been snatched by that process for sure. I was soooo shy. But we have come a long way from the 1950's. When I was growing up, the conventional wisdom, at least in my home town, was that extroversion was evidence of normal mental health, and introversion revealed the presence of some developmental issue, and introverts were strongly encouraged to strive to become extroverts.

To NTs: What is with the all or nothing thing? Any time I request a limit on social interaction or touch or conversation with those close to me they cut it off completely despite repeated attempt to explain I just need a break or a little less of it. Even the cut off takes multiple requests which also baffles me, especially when the person I'm asking gets angry that the final request had to be a little more forceful vocally. Why do people get so mad when you have to snap because the last four or five times you asked them to stop something were ignored?

I have a theory. I can only offer theories because I have not observed your situation. I am wondering if they aren't ignoring you, just not perceiving your requests for what they are. I have observed that many people think everyone else is like them. For some people many people around them are like them, so they have generalized this assumption to everyone. I have kiddingly named this "Like Me Disease". When they encounter something, they use themselves as the standard to judge it, and it doesn't make sense to them that you would actually be asking them to stop touching you or touch you less, so they assume you must mean it some other way perhaps. Or perhaps they think they are doing what you asked but they haven't checked with you to see if it is really what you want. And then when you reach the end of your patience, they perceive your behavior as "We were going along just fine, and then suddenly without warning you blow up in our faces!" So now their feelings are hurt so they cut you off totally.

It's evidently human nature to compare others using oneself as the standard. I have caught myself doing that even though Like Me Disease has been a source of much frustration in my life.

That makes sense to me, though, I'm thinking, it's a combo of "like me" and "like most people I deal with", which for many people tend to be similar, and when those coincide, it's especially hard to understand those who are different, to understand those differences.

what does an Aspie think before speaking with someone new and what does an NT think before speaking with someone new?

also~~~~

Since the Brain changes itself, cant one become better functioning then an NT if they are aspie, or on the same level???

Some folks seem to think that all NT's are alike. What does an NT think before meeting someone new? It depends on many things. What reputation does the person have? What do I know about this person? Why am I meeting them? What mood am I in? Am I tired, or well rested? If my purpose for meeting the person is to make some request, or to Apply for something that I need. I tend to be a rather 'go with the flow' kind of person. I will wait to see what they feel like, and what they have to say. If I am applying for something, I might make sure I have a good idea in my mind, of what I want to say, but most times I don't. But not all NTs are like me. Many want all of the details of what they want to do and say nailed down in advanced, having their spiel memorized, etc. Once again, it just depends.


That is an interesting theory. It is known that when one is an infant, or a toddler, the brain changes greatly to adapt to one's environment, by trimming away the unneeded neurological tissue. In fact I read a theory recently that what might make one autistic might be that the brain failed to trim out the unneeded neurological areas of the brain. That they say is why the head of an autistic person is larger than that of NT persons. It's a theory. If this theory had any validity, it would seem that an aspie would be unable to become better functioning because if they had been able to become better functioning, they would have in their childhood. Is that logical? But it's a theory. I don't know if aspies can. Based upon historical data, it would appear that the answer is no, or at least I have not heard of any who have. But I am not an expert on the matter.

Three for NT's:

I have once tried to join a group and I have told them about autism and all at the beginning, and that I wanted to be treated in a similar way as they treated each other. As time passed I got to know the real situation, they are closer friends, that know each other from more than just the music club, but they actually thought that I wanted to be as close as them. Now I really screwed things up, but it wasn't my goal to get as close in the first place.

Now they say I will never be as close as them, but using this thread is a step in the right direction. (I told them that I found this thread)
1.How do I say that it wasn't my goal to be as close to them in the first place, but just being treated the same way? (their age being 13-16)

2.How do I ask them how they see me? (as in: who am I to them and what do I do wrong according to you?)

3.How do I explain that I am really unsure and that I really can be wrong at anything I say/state, while to them I seem perfectly sure?

By the way, thank you, Greentea.

Think of it this way . . . those in the spectrum are like reactors. Too much stimuli could result in a meltdown (we all know what is), so we try to shut ourselves down so that we dont reach the meltdown. In a shutdown, we try to completely ignore our surroundings and shut out the world around us, tucking ourselves into a mental "corner" in order to cope with what's overwhelming us. Something similar would be a breakdown (for those not in the spectrum, NT or otherwise), but our shutdown is kind of a buffer phase to prevent/lessen the meltdown (admittedly, Ive only had one meltdown and I dont even remember it happening, or what I did/said during it). At least, thats my understanding of how it would go . . .

With my shutdowns I can't move, speak or think clearly. I sort of have this light headed feeling and my body stuck in suspended animation.

To the former question: It really depends on the individual. A lot of us are quantitative so we dont really talk to someone new unless, say, theyre going to be a co-worker, customer, or someone just seeking information. Otherwise, we dont really talk to someone new unless we're addressed first . . . but, that gets to small talk which we dont do well with/understand anyway . Small talk for those in the spectrum would just be an exchange of information, not a conveyance of emotional attachments to the topic, so what we think is about the object of the discussion.

To the latter question: First, i refuse to use the word "function" when describing people (makes us sound like machines) so i'll use the word "versatile." For one in the spectrum to become more versatile, its pretty much based on what has or hasnt been quantified in that individual's life (ie taught). While we can approach a near NT appearance and conduct, there will still be aspect of the mindset that will never go away and still leave others with a sense that "<person's name> doesnt seem right, or seems off/distant." Course, that mindset depends on who is observing the hidden "spectrumite" closely as opposed to other people in a crowd.

I generally say something that indicates friendliness, and something calculated to put them at ease, or allow them to make a response that intitiates conversation.
I also smile at them of course.
What I say will have some relevance to the situation e.g. something related to why I am in the same place as them (e.g. at someones party), or something about the environment that is shared. E.g. If I was at a park pushing my boy on the swing and I wanted to talk to someone next to me, I might compliment their childs ability at doing something (people always love that) or of course the old standby talk about the weather.
So what I generally think about is the context of the situation, who I'm talking to, what the object of talking to them is and what the outcomes might be!
Reading that it sounds complex, but it comes naturally.

To NT's: Why are some compliments "forbidden" and is there a polite way around this?

Specifically, I mean compliments that are typically interpreted as an indication of attraction. Is there a way to tell someone they're good-looking without coming across like you're expressing some kind of romantic interest in them?

For example, in theory, it should simply be flattering to say to a friend or a married person, "You're very good-looking," as a simple, genuine compliment; maybe they're having a bad day and hearing such a compliment would make them feel better. That's in an ideal world at least . . .

In reality, if I said to a married man, "You're looking quite handsome today," he would think I was dreaming of having an affair with him. If I said to a girl, "Wow, you're new boyfriend is hot! And I love his sense of humor," she would worry that I was thinking of competing with her for him, when, in reality, I would just literally mean, "Congrats on finding such a stunning guy." Similarly, if I said to a male heterosexual friend who was single, "You're one of the best-looking guys I know," he'd think I was hitting on him, which would be bad if there were good reasons for us to be just friends.

Is there a way to give people compliments about their looks and stuff while making it clear that you're simply being kind and genuine, and not trying to convey any ulterior motives?

To autists:
Are autistic people prone to black and white thinking and overgeneralization? Sure looks like it. Is it a false impression or not?

I think the problem with this whole thread is that it dichotomises humanity in a manner that is quite artificial and silly. I would not have said this a few months ago, but over the past little while I have been attending some ASD groups and my conclusion is that ASD people are as diverse in their manifestations as are NT's. Sure, according to the DSM there may be a cluster of traits that manifest in us - but these are as variant and complex in their manifestations as are the many ordinary traits that exist in all human beings. All this adherence to SET and artificial generalisation that NT's are on one side of a divide and ASD people are on the other??? Hmmmm....rather systemically limited and lacking in complexity if you ask me. At first I thought this thread was a great idea...but now I am not so sure. My meeting with so many ASD people has led me to believe any simplistic generalisations about people is not where it is at. (And that may be why it is so hard for me to cope with ALL humans - AS or NT. Because they are spontaneous and changeable and they change and vary! )

In the end, for me it is very problematic, and rather than leading to human unity and understanding, it actually ends up creating more of a gap than there has to be.

My experience is there are all sorts of people everywhere. Rather than an ASD and NT divide, I would consider the spectrum model - with NT at one end and ASD at the other end and all the ensuant variations. I would also consider the very real fact that there are GREAT and LOVELY people everywhere and there are LOUSY and NEGATIVE people everywhere, and the key for me as a woman with AS is to learn how to steer away from the latter group and attempt to steer toward the former group.

In addition - there is the issue of how I manifest and behave in my daily life. On a daily basis I can either choose to be "great and lovely" or I can choose to be "lousy and negative." I can easily exist in the latter realm and do so quite frequently - with behaviour that I am not happy with and that I feel is lacking in spiritual depth or accountability. I can also exist in the former realm and this can take a bit more effort for me sometimes, but it is possible.

The ASD world -online and in real life - and the NT world -online and in real life - are filled with human beings who are wonderful and deeply caring or alternatively, ratbags. There are people everywhere in any group who are positive and loving or negative, embittered and twisted.

I think all humans - NT or ASD - simply do well to try to be the best they can regardless of what package they came in, when they were born.....


One of the most understanding and insightful people I have met is an NT who runs a state based AS organisation. She has a family member on the spectrum. Some of the most hideous people I have ever met happen to be on the spectrum. And i myself can be hideous.................... and also understanding. I can be hideous if i allow my hurts and my resentments and my anger at not being understood, rule me and rule my thoughts, actions and behaviours. I saw this in myself some months ago and I am working to change it again and again and again. I'm human. We are all human. Some NT people understand me far better than some ASD people. One cannot dichotomise and generalise in this fashion. In my view it is just plain silly to do so, and I realise now, my initial view that one could, is simplistic, and needed adjusting.


and to answer the quote question..... I am dx'ed ASD. I can maybe tend towards black and white thinking, but I also have a sensory realm that is so finely tuned that it means I live in incredible sensory complexity and richness and also pain at times. I get sick of all the pigeon-holing of ASD and NT people.
I've met AS people who are adult and black and white in their thinking, I have met others who are not at all and are also dx'ed ASD. I have met NT people who are totally black and white in their thinking and i have met other NT's who are not.

Let's try to move beyond the stereotypes.....

Love this thread. I've been devouring it for hours!

BMH, I think both people with AS and NTs can be very black and white in their thinking sometimes, but they do it in different ways and about different things.

For the people with AS I know, it's the usual complaint, they have one social template for all people instead of changing it based on their goals for the interaction, the other person's personality type, what they know about the other person's history and quirks (i.e., a controlling mother, or dealing with anxiety by looking for a distraction) etc. Then they get very confused and frustrated when they run out of things to try and can't think of anything else. (To be fair, I'm not much better because I have the opposite problem. I get so confused by all the complexity in people's personalities and the situation that it's very hard for me to generalize appropriately. So I can think & talk about social situations in a complex way but in real life, each interaction is like reinventing the wheel. )

OTOH, many of the NTs I know are very black and white about ideas. They're not very precise with words. They don't ask questions like "when you said this, did you mean x or y?" They don't say things like, "it depends on how you define ___." When I do say things like this, I think they often believe I'm missing the "bigger picture" and that precision just isn't that important. Whereas I believe that precision makes it easier to know what people are talking about. Part of this might be a T/F personality difference, too, but I don't think that's the whole story.

Which brings up more questions...for those of you with AS, when you get advice from people who you know are socially skilled, how do you know how much is really generally applicable and how much comes from the personality of the advice-giver? For example, I hate confrontation so I might give someone advice that would help them avoid conflict, but it might not be as good for solving the problem in the long run. Or someone might value keeping a job with a conformist culture over being honest, so they might advise you to hide a lot of things about yourself at work, whereas another person with different values or life experience might suggest taking the risk of being yourself or finding another job.

And for the NTs, for each personality type that's out there, do you have a special set of behaviors and interpretations of their behavior? If an introvert ignored you, would you immediately interpret it differently than if an extrovert ignored you? How well do you feel like you understand personalities that are very different than yours (say, P if you're J or T if you're F), and how hard is it for you to adjust? Is it hard for everybody, or just for people who aren't NT?