21 Feb 2011, 4:09 am
Marsian wrote:
Tbh, I think the only way you can get the other diagnosis is to talk to your psych and to say that although you have a diagnosis of ADHD you feel that your symptoms are perhaps more closer to those of AS and ask why they think you have ADHD and not AS. I know this is what I should do as I have the opposite dilemma but I don't feel confident to do it. I think it is the only way to find out though.
I feel the opposite that although I am fairly sure I have AS as I didn't even know I was supposed to make eye contact until I was 17, and I have never experienced sexuality and have an unusual intelligence profile and have always had difficulty with social skills and relationships. I think all my other issue mask the fact that I may also have ADHD. I feel that a combination of AS and ADHD would more explain the way I am.
Also I don't understand how psychs diagnose ADHD? I think Aspergers is more testable than ADHD but even so are ADHD and Aspergers just variations of the same thing, I have heard that there is a 70% overlap?
I have always felt a bit uncertain about my gender, I think because I don't seem to experience sexuality. I think that side of things all goes along with AS too!
Such fun :@
I feel the opposite that although I am fairly sure I have AS as I didn't even know I was supposed to make eye contact until I was 17, and I have never experienced sexuality and have an unusual intelligence profile and have always had difficulty with social skills and relationships. I think all my other issue mask the fact that I may also have ADHD. I feel that a combination of AS and ADHD would more explain the way I am.
Also I don't understand how psychs diagnose ADHD? I think Aspergers is more testable than ADHD but even so are ADHD and Aspergers just variations of the same thing, I have heard that there is a 70% overlap?
I have always felt a bit uncertain about my gender, I think because I don't seem to experience sexuality. I think that side of things all goes along with AS too!
Such fun :@
Well, that explains me actually being AS-diagnosable usind the DSM-IV, just by using all of my severe ADHD sympthoms!! !
_________________
Have DCD,ADHD, and many others (and possible AS). Husband-to-be has AS/PDD.
Name: call me Nitz.
Age: 16
Obsession: Neuro-psychology, my boyfriend, neurology (stopped denying it).
Illy, I love you.
21 Feb 2011, 10:45 am
21 Feb 2011, 11:31 am
daydreamer84 wrote:
j0sh wrote:
anbuend wrote:
Bluefins wrote:
PIQ is the one with the blocks, right? I completed the first designs before she'd even started the clock 
PIQ is a summary of several tests, including the block one. (Just like VIQ is a summary of several tests.) I had the same experience with the first design on the block test, interesting to hear it from someone else as last time I told someone they told me that was impossible and that I was lying.
The guy got up to grab coffee when he gave me the last picture for the block test. I had it finished before he got out the door. I think his reaction was "um, that was fast."
Interestingly even though I have very severe NLD (at least I did when assessed at age eight) my VIQ was 140 and my PIQ was borderline MR (or ID) range at around 70.... it was noted on my assessment( which I recently read over) that I was successful on the block design test (also that I had good visual attention to detail). My other scores on the PIQ section were incredibly low and I think the block design was the only thing that kept the score from being firmly in the MR range! I think my score was only high end of average though....it wasn't that impressive (except in comparison to my overall PIQ)…….
I have a diagnosis of AS along with the NLD btw......
Hmmm daydreamer84....we do have some things in common in terms of the results of our neuropsych/IQ tests at least.
Nonetheless....the differences between our performance on the PIQ subtests is more interesting and likely quite a bit more telling.
Truth be told....i'm wondering just how "severe" your NLD is. Now to be clear.....i'm NOT saying I think you may be lying about the severity of your NLD, but there are a few things which may not add up based upon what you wrote here.
Dr. Byron Rourke (a leading NLD researcher and neuropsychologist from the University of Windsor) has stated many times that "classic" NLD/NVLD manifestations include poor performance (poor at least relative to other subtest scores on both VIQ and PIQ) on both the Block Design and Object Assembly subtests on the PIQ section of the WAIS. In fact...."classic" NLD-ers usually, if not always, see their very worst performance on the entire WAIS on these two non-verbal/PIQ subtests.
That has ALWAYS been precisely the case with me and even Judy Lewis of NLDline fame told me she KNEW I was a "classic" NLD-er the first second she heard my voice on the phone.
I've often scored in the "impaired" range on Object Assembly and usually in the low average range on Block Design. These two subtests bring my PIQ (and therefore...overall/Full Scale IQ as well) down considerably. I would probably consistently obtain superior/very superior full scale IQ scores if not for these two non-verbal subtests.
You, OTOH, have seen your BEST performance on the PIQ subtests on the Block Design one. You didn't mention how you did on Object Assembly if it was even included on your WAIS tests to begin with.
Object Assembly has been removed from the latest edition of WAIS (IV). This is probably due to it's low reliability coefficient (which is around .70 I believe) and I think it has the lowest RC of all the WAIS subtests.
It has been replaced by another non-verbal subtest called "Visual Puzzles" and I took that one on my latest neuropsychological evaluation/WAIS test in June 2010. Unsurprisingly enough....I scored in the "impaired" range on that subtest and much like the Object Assembly test before it.....it was the subtest that I performed my worst at on the entire WAIS-IV.
NLD/NVLD should never be suspected based upon a higher VIQ/lower PIQ alone. Rather...it is far more useful to look at one's pattern of subtest scores on the WAIS.
10 Apr 2011, 4:06 am
10 Apr 2011, 7:28 am
10 Apr 2011, 10:42 am
10 Apr 2011, 11:17 am
10 Apr 2011, 4:51 pm
daydreamer84
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Joined: 8 Jul 2009
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,001
Location: My own little world
11 Apr 2011, 12:08 am
Horus wrote:
daydreamer84 wrote:
j0sh wrote:
anbuend wrote:
Bluefins wrote:
PIQ is the one with the blocks, right? I completed the first designs before she'd even started the clock
PIQ is a summary of several tests, including the block one. (Just like VIQ is a summary of several tests.) I had the same experience with the first design on the block test, interesting to hear it from someone else as last time I told someone they told me that was impossible and that I was lying.
The guy got up to grab coffee when he gave me the last picture for the block test. I had it finished before he got out the door. I think his reaction was "um, that was fast."
Interestingly even though I have very severe NLD (at least I did when assessed at age eight) my VIQ was 140 and my PIQ was borderline MR (or ID) range at around 70.... it was noted on my assessment( which I recently read over) that I was successful on the block design test (also that I had good visual attention to detail). My other scores on the PIQ section were incredibly low and I think the block design was the only thing that kept the score from being firmly in the MR range! I think my score was only high end of average though....it wasn't that impressive (except in comparison to my overall PIQ)…….
I have a diagnosis of AS along with the NLD btw......
Hmmm daydreamer84....we do have some things in common in terms of the results of our neuropsych/IQ tests at least.
Nonetheless....the differences between our performance on the PIQ subtests is more interesting and likely quite a bit more telling.
Truth be told....i'm wondering just how "severe" your NLD is. Now to be clear.....i'm NOT saying I think you may be lying about the severity of your NLD, but there are a few things which may not add up based upon what you wrote here.
Dr. Byron Rourke (a leading NLD researcher and neuropsychologist from the University of Windsor) has stated many times that "classic" NLD/NVLD manifestations include poor performance (poor at least relative to other subtest scores on both VIQ and PIQ) on both the Block Design and Object Assembly subtests on the PIQ section of the WAIS. In fact...."classic" NLD-ers usually, if not always, see their very worst performance on the entire WAIS on these two non-verbal/PIQ subtests.
That has ALWAYS been precisely the case with me and even Judy Lewis of NLDline fame told me she KNEW I was a "classic" NLD-er the first second she heard my voice on the phone.
I've often scored in the "impaired" range on Object Assembly and usually in the low average range on Block Design. These two subtests bring my PIQ (and therefore...overall/Full Scale IQ as well) down considerably. I would probably consistently obtain superior/very superior full scale IQ scores if not for these two non-verbal subtests.
You, OTOH, have seen your BEST performance on the PIQ subtests on the Block Design one. You didn't mention how you did on Object Assembly if it was even included on your WAIS tests to begin with.
Object Assembly has been removed from the latest edition of WAIS (IV). This is probably due to it's low reliability coefficient (which is around .70 I believe) and I think it has the lowest RC of all the WAIS subtests.
It has been replaced by another non-verbal subtest called "Visual Puzzles" and I took that one on my latest neuropsychological evaluation/WAIS test in June 2010. Unsurprisingly enough....I scored in the "impaired" range on that subtest and much like the Object Assembly test before it.....it was the subtest that I performed my worst at on the entire WAIS-IV.
NLD/NVLD should never be suspected based upon a higher VIQ/lower PIQ alone. Rather...it is far more useful to look at one's pattern of subtest scores on the WAIS.
My object assembly score was very low..............I don't remember what it was. I don't know why I "had some success" on the block design and not the other subtests.
You're right NLD shouldn't be diagnosed based on VIQ>PIQ alone............... butfor me because it was such a big discrepancy and because my mom and the psych were trying to find an explanation for some of my other problems reported by my teachers and mom (extreme social problems , motor skills problems, sensory sensitivity etc) and AS was not in the DSM at the time they thought NLD was the right diagnosis for me. Social problems and motor skill impairments occur often in NLD...sensory processing problems have been reported too. My mom asked doctors if I was autistic (because of my lack of social engagement and stimming and getting angry over routines being changed etc.) but because my speech was "so good" they dismissed her concerns. Then 3 years after AS was added to the DSM when I was 13 I was referred for an assessment based on my records. So I have the NLD diagnosis from when I was a very small child........still I think my deficits in spatial/visual perception have caused me a great deal of impairment (from grade 3 on when we had to learn fractions and geometry I was completely lost in math ) for example. I don't know if it's from NLD but I definitely have an LD or a learning problem of some sort that is similar to NLD.
11 Apr 2011, 2:04 pm
daydreamer84 wrote:
Horus wrote:
daydreamer84 wrote:
j0sh wrote:
anbuend wrote:
Bluefins wrote:
PIQ is the one with the blocks, right? I completed the first designs before she'd even started the clock
PIQ is a summary of several tests, including the block one. (Just like VIQ is a summary of several tests.) I had the same experience with the first design on the block test, interesting to hear it from someone else as last time I told someone they told me that was impossible and that I was lying.
The guy got up to grab coffee when he gave me the last picture for the block test. I had it finished before he got out the door. I think his reaction was "um, that was fast."
Interestingly even though I have very severe NLD (at least I did when assessed at age eight) my VIQ was 140 and my PIQ was borderline MR (or ID) range at around 70.... it was noted on my assessment( which I recently read over) that I was successful on the block design test (also that I had good visual attention to detail). My other scores on the PIQ section were incredibly low and I think the block design was the only thing that kept the score from being firmly in the MR range! I think my score was only high end of average though....it wasn't that impressive (except in comparison to my overall PIQ)…….
I have a diagnosis of AS along with the NLD btw......
Hmmm daydreamer84....we do have some things in common in terms of the results of our neuropsych/IQ tests at least.
Nonetheless....the differences between our performance on the PIQ subtests is more interesting and likely quite a bit more telling.
Truth be told....i'm wondering just how "severe" your NLD is. Now to be clear.....i'm NOT saying I think you may be lying about the severity of your NLD, but there are a few things which may not add up based upon what you wrote here.
Dr. Byron Rourke (a leading NLD researcher and neuropsychologist from the University of Windsor) has stated many times that "classic" NLD/NVLD manifestations include poor performance (poor at least relative to other subtest scores on both VIQ and PIQ) on both the Block Design and Object Assembly subtests on the PIQ section of the WAIS. In fact...."classic" NLD-ers usually, if not always, see their very worst performance on the entire WAIS on these two non-verbal/PIQ subtests.
That has ALWAYS been precisely the case with me and even Judy Lewis of NLDline fame told me she KNEW I was a "classic" NLD-er the first second she heard my voice on the phone.
I've often scored in the "impaired" range on Object Assembly and usually in the low average range on Block Design. These two subtests bring my PIQ (and therefore...overall/Full Scale IQ as well) down considerably. I would probably consistently obtain superior/very superior full scale IQ scores if not for these two non-verbal subtests.
You, OTOH, have seen your BEST performance on the PIQ subtests on the Block Design one. You didn't mention how you did on Object Assembly if it was even included on your WAIS tests to begin with.
Object Assembly has been removed from the latest edition of WAIS (IV). This is probably due to it's low reliability coefficient (which is around .70 I believe) and I think it has the lowest RC of all the WAIS subtests.
It has been replaced by another non-verbal subtest called "Visual Puzzles" and I took that one on my latest neuropsychological evaluation/WAIS test in June 2010. Unsurprisingly enough....I scored in the "impaired" range on that subtest and much like the Object Assembly test before it.....it was the subtest that I performed my worst at on the entire WAIS-IV.
NLD/NVLD should never be suspected based upon a higher VIQ/lower PIQ alone. Rather...it is far more useful to look at one's pattern of subtest scores on the WAIS.
My object assembly score was very low..............I don't remember what it was. I don't know why I "had some success" on the block design and not the other subtests.
You're right NLD shouldn't be diagnosed based on VIQ>PIQ alone............... butfor me because it was such a big discrepancy and because my mom and the psych were trying to find an explanation for some of my other problems reported by my teachers and mom (extreme social problems , motor skills problems, sensory sensitivity etc) and AS was not in the DSM at the time they thought NLD was the right diagnosis for me. Social problems and motor skill impairments occur often in NLD...sensory processing problems have been reported too. My mom asked doctors if I was autistic (because of my lack of social engagement and stimming and getting angry over routines being changed etc.) but because my speech was "so good" they dismissed her concerns. Then 3 years after AS was added to the DSM when I was 13 I was referred for an assessment based on my records. So I have the NLD diagnosis from when I was a very small child........still I think my deficits in spatial/visual perception have caused me a great deal of impairment (from grade 3 on when we had to learn fractions and geometry I was completely lost in math ) for example. I don't know if it's from NLD but I definitely have an LD or a learning problem of some sort that is similar to NLD.
daydreamer84,
I wish I could say more, but i'm very busy and I have been since I started this job on December 27th. I am working 65 hours per week, preparing to go back to university (where I WILL eventually receive my doctorate in neuropsychology or die trying
) in the fall and all sorts of other things. So in short....I strongly believe my crappy processing speed has much, if not everything, to do with my poor performance (usually low average/close-to borderline on every WAIS i've taken) on the block design subtest. After all....the block design test IS timed and while I can EVENTUALLY put all the blocks together correctly, I often go significantly beyond the alloted time. This is especially true with the most complex block arrangements in the WAIS booklet which you must copy with the actual blocks. Still....I have no explanation for my even worse (often "impaired) performance on the now-defunct object assembly subtest, or the current visual puzzles one. My only explanation there is simply deficient visual-spatial-organizational skills that are almost always present to some degree in those with non-verbal learning disabilities. 
11 Apr 2011, 4:54 pm
daydreamer84
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Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,001
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12 Apr 2011, 12:06 am
Louise8 wrote:
you should have had a option for not aspi with VIQ<PIQ
I do have that option: diagnosed aspie and VIQ= or < PIQ 31% . I just put = or <
daydreamer84
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Joined: 8 Jul 2009
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,001
Location: My own little world
12 Apr 2011, 12:20 am
Horus wrote:
daydreamer84,
I wish I could say more, but i'm very busy and I have been since I started this job on December 27th. I am working 65 hours per week, preparing to go back to university (where I WILL eventually receive my doctorate in neuropsychology or die trying ) in the fall and all sorts of other things. So in short....I strongly believe my crappy processing speed has much, if not everything, to do with my poor performance (usually low average/close-to borderline on every WAIS i've taken) on the block design subtest. After all....the block design test IS timed and while I can EVENTUALLY put all the blocks together correctly, I often go significantly beyond the alloted time. This is especially true with the most complex block arrangements in the WAIS booklet which you must copy with the actual blocks. Still....I have no explanation for my even worse (often "impaired) performance on the now-defunct object assembly subtest, or the current visual puzzles one. My only explanation there is simply deficient visual-spatial-organizational skills that are almost always present to some degree in those with non-verbal learning disabilities.
I wish I could say more, but i'm very busy and I have been since I started this job on December 27th. I am working 65 hours per week, preparing to go back to university (where I WILL eventually receive my doctorate in neuropsychology or die trying
) in the fall and all sorts of other things. So in short....I strongly believe my crappy processing speed has much, if not everything, to do with my poor performance (usually low average/close-to borderline on every WAIS i've taken) on the block design subtest. After all....the block design test IS timed and while I can EVENTUALLY put all the blocks together correctly, I often go significantly beyond the alloted time. This is especially true with the most complex block arrangements in the WAIS booklet which you must copy with the actual blocks. Still....I have no explanation for my even worse (often "impaired) performance on the now-defunct object assembly subtest, or the current visual puzzles one. My only explanation there is simply deficient visual-spatial-organizational skills that are almost always present to some degree in those with non-verbal learning disabilities. I'm still working on my undergrad in neuropsychology this was supposed to be my last year..........and it seems I might have not taken one of the courses I need to graduate.............a course that is not offered in the summer or a single semester (stupid executive dysfunction) and so I might have to take yet another year before I can graduate. Anyways good luck with going back to school...........you'll be studying the most interesting subject I can think of.
Oddly I have a slow processing speed............I get time and 75% instead of the time and a half offered to most people with LD's because apparently my psycho-educational tests indicate that I need it. I didn't remember that the block test was timed.............I was tested as a child..............It's a mystery why I did relativity well on it...........I wonder of I would if tested now............
Yes I think the difficulty with object assembly is due to deficient visual-spatial-organizational skills.......
12 Apr 2011, 1:26 pm
robertyknwt
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: 12 Apr 2011
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 60
Location: Tarzana CA USA
13 Apr 2011, 6:29 pm
21 Sep 2011, 9:43 am
