Understanding the model NTs operate on

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It would be hard to find a book about this because NTs are most of the population. Maybe just books on human social behavior. Not easy to find specific things about NT communication and how it's different than autism like it would be to find about autistics because nobody thinks of comparing the "normal" people to the minority group, maybe somebody will.

You can ask me LOL. Any of you really, I don't give a sh^t.

Another point is that, I suppose, the nature of the difference of the mental processes between autistics and NTs is not yet well unbderstood (look at all the competing theories - theory of mind, executive function, systemizing/empathazing, central coherence...).

And, if we don't really know how autistic mind is different from NT mind, how we can know how NT mind is different from autistic mind?

A nonautistic attempting to understand autism is like a blind person attempting to pin down the exact sound, smell and feel of a lack of blindness. NTs are as easily understood as any primate. You won't be able to get in their heads but modelling them is trivial.

This is absolutely true. NTs do not form a homogenous group of people who think, feel and act in more or less the same way. There are as many "models" as there are humans. There are thousands and thousands of books written about communication - and that ought to tell you that NTs may also find communication challenging, and that there is no one way to go about it.
NTs do not think in one way. We do not feel the same. There are NTs that hate socializing, but others that love it - most of us are perhaps somewhere along the scale between the two.
Some NTs are good at reading between the lines, others less so. Some NTs use body language a lot, others less so. Some people love facebook, many others do not see the point of it at all.
Bottom line: We're all widely different individuals. The only thing we can safely say that NTs have in common is that we are not austisic. That really isn't much to go by when trying to define us.

I'm going to have to check out the Field Guide to Earthlings. Sounds humorous.

I understand the perception/story/judgment/reaction dynamic.

What I don't understand is why, when the facts of the situation contradict their story, so many NTs choose to ignore the facts rather than re-evaluate the story (and the judgment and reaction that follow from it).

That's one of the hardest things for me to deal with-- exercising control over what they perceive so they won't make up an inaccurate story and therefore judge wrongly and react inappropriately.

This is common, really. I won't say with all NTs just like ASD traits don't apply to all autistics. But you didn't say all anyway.

Has to do with the herd mentality thing. That sounds like an insult that's thrown at NTs by Aspies here a lot but it applies to most. The NT is a pack-creature. They are just more likely to react to the tone/social feel of any situation as opposed to facts and what's actually being said in conversation.

Almost every day I experience someone reacting to the WAY I said something and paying very little to no attention to what I actually said. Or I witness something happen and hear them tell it in a very different (and more dramatic) way to someone else later. Not just random lies, usually they will exaggerate if they've decided someone offended them.

My personal solution to this is to not respond whenever possible. If I'm not dealing with a boss or coworker I really have no patience for people who overreact and ignore facts, and are very obviously doing it for crazy reasons. Sometimes I just stare blankly LOL, or cut contact with the person for a little while.

After a while they often do pick up on the signals I'm trying to send, basically being that I have no interest in dealing with them if they aren't going o be straight forward with me and will disappear and the first sign of any dramatics.

And there are no consequences for ignoring the facts. Being in a social pool people just rely on one another to get by. No real planning but living entirely in a conscious moment, even taking great risks with their health-- " STDS, etc. can't happen to me!"

It's a hypnotic effect that envelopes the social strata, a falling into a large black hole of safety in numbers mindset.

I watched a show where a guy was in his house and a stray bullet entered into to his home and almost hit him. He said he 'woke up,' as he was living in an unrealistic comfort zone of not taking anything seriously in life.

I get the idea that consequences are unreal or that cause and effect is unreal. Some relatives I've talked to believe there is nothing 'known' or can be known and the truth is what you define it as. "There is not a better way to do something." A comfortable self delusion.

Last edited by Mdyar on 08 Apr 2012, 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yep. All of that and especially this part.

I am NT "enough" to have formed close friendships and even bonds with groups of people before, but the total conditioning has always escaped me.

Even when it comes to simple, objective information, I see people asking their friends and relatives for answers first and never questioning it-that's the fascinating part. I understand that they're simply inclined to socialize and enjoy getting information from others but believing socially acquired knowledge as fact and even going so far as to believe that facts aren't real or are subjective...truly blows my mind.

This is truly interesting. Many aspies on the WP forum talk about the NTs' apparent (and obviously irritating) lack of focus on and interest in facts. To me it becomes something of a paradox that one of the facts most ignored by aspies is that NTs do not constitute a homogenous group of people. The only thing that may accurately define us in the context of this forum, is that we are not on the autistic spectrum. Beyond that, we're actually as different as everyone else. Countless NTs love facts - they occupy themselves with hard facts on an everyday basis. And that is a fact. And it's been repeated many times. But somehow, that seems to be a fact that some aspies are reluctant to accept.

This might be true to a certain extent but most NTs are highly adept at forming a frighteningly generic, conformist pack which will proceed to turn on the nearest vulnerable aspie in an utterly ruthless manner when it suits them!

There's certainly not much difference between them then! Try being on the receiving end of it for once!

NTs are pack animals whereas people with Aspergers are individuals

I think you can compare it to chimps vs an orang-utang - orang-utangs are very solitary and sweet-natured whereas chimps live in packs and are exceedingly aggressive - it is the pack mentality that causes the viciousness

I'd rather be an orang-utang than a chimp any day.

I will define NTs by how they have acted towards me throughout my life

Last edited by nessa238 on 08 Apr 2012, 1:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Some NTs like to pretend they have an interest in facts and knowedge for it's own sake but in my 46 years' experience of interacting with them, with 99% their eyes glaze over as soon as you start talking about factual information or anything with any depth. They want information-lite conversation, preferably about someone else and preferably back-stabbing someone else!

The emptier their heads the happier they are in my experience! Throw most a three-syllable word and they'll run for cover! I have not spent my life being dismissed as boring by the average NT for having an intellect without forming a strong opinion on the subject.

But of course, it's the NT method to say black is white and they usually get away with it as they are used to making it all up to suit themselves.

In other words you're not going to cut any ice with me on here!

What is it with the NT invasion lately??

The other NTs a bit too empty-headed and generic for you?

Pft!

Last edited by nessa238 on 08 Apr 2012, 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

This, pretty much.

Just like all people with ASD's won't be the same, neither will NTs but what makes the Aspie an Aspie, is that they aren't able to conform the way an NT is.

An NT can have a huge spectrum of traits outside of that, but generally each little NT niche takes comfort in identifying with and forming bonds with people who are like them. Not clear with the autistic and there aren't really enough autistic people to know how Aspie society would function, I get the idea that socialization just wouldn't be the most important thing for Aspies but that it would still occur.

I've met NTs like myself and recognize that I have the NT ability to form connections based on mutual interests and other NT traits but I also see how differently the bonds I've formed with others have been compared to the way most people socialize, generic is exactly what I would call it. And it's not the NTs who do form generic bonds with each other are incapable of forming something deeper, it's that their first instinct is to override that and form artificial connections with people instead of ignoring them. I'm not able to do this, when I do it's very unconvincing. I don't always view that as a positive thing. An NT is able to fake this as well as connect on a deeper level.

Anyway, I've said a few times that nothing I say here is absolute or applies across the board. I am NT so of course I know that NTs follow the herd in varying degrees but there are certainly more Aspie like/BAP NTs and these are the people I've formed the deepest connections with and what it made it special is that they weren't based on interests or beliefs, we just knew that we thought the same way. I have friends of completely different religious and political affiliations as my own who think the way I do and that's what's most important for me.

Last edited by EXPECIALLY on 08 Apr 2012, 1:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

I agree with you, IMO the "nerdy" NTs who want you to believe that they love factual information have been a dime a dozen in recent years.

Oh the irony! They actually want to join OUR gang! LOL

Shall we let them?

Hmmmmmmmmm

NO!

Lol

(I'm speaking for myself here btw - others can do as they please!)

Having spent a lot of my life agonisong over not being 'good enough' I finally realised I already was, I just needed to keep the hell away from those who seek to define me as 'lesser'!

Lo and behold - what happens? They actively come searching us out to bestow their infinite wisdom upon us!

Pardon me while I split my sides!

I don't know whether to be flattered or horrified!

Get me out of NT City someone because when the number of NTs on here reaches critical mass there'll probably be some kind of NT coup and the site will be renamed 'Wrong NT Planet (but we're all very aspie-like really btw!)'

Last edited by nessa238 on 08 Apr 2012, 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Well I don't know if you're including me in that group but I am NT lol.

I try my best not to come in here and start breaking balls FWIW.

No, you seem quite tolerable

You are what I term a 'bridge person' ie foot in both camps - you are good at explaining the vagiaries of the NT mindset to us as opposed to just sneering and kicking sand in our faces like the average one would!

What an honour! - an NT deems to speak to us!

(I'm just being facetious )