Herding Cats

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Try reading him without confirmation bias.

Speciation can occur, yes. But two species of (post)human will not be able to co-exist, I think we all know that, unless of course one is master and one is slave, and i'll have no part of that.

Specialization within a species is the beginnings of a speciation. Once inter-breeding across specialization lines (we could call them castes) stops, the real speciation begins.

Confirmation bias is when you refer to Origin of the Species and conclude that it means that the weak must die so the strongest may thrive. Because that is not what Origin of the Species says, nor what any evolutionary biologist has claimed. What you're describing here is not what's happening. There's simply no evidence of it happening among humans.

Given that you're using your science to justify genocide in another thread I rather suspect reasonable discourse is a waste of time.



Populist pseudoscience continues.

A herd of cats would be so qute, I would follow them to the ends of the earth, meow meow meow.

My strays do herd at dinner time, but I don't need to follow them to the ends of the Earth, they follow me, hehehe!

Vickygleitz, I think pretty much any group could benefit from working together more effectively and we're no exception. The devil is in the details, though. In an abstract sense, I don't think anyone would disagree with you. But people can't "just cooperate" - you need to cooperate on some project or activity. And this is where all the challenges come in. People need to agree that the project is feasible, that it's worthwhile, how it should be done and, yes, what the pecking order is. (Any project beyond a few people does need a hierarchy, even if it's unofficial and unspoken, because where there are two minds there will be two opinions.) I think it's all these details that stop people, not the fact that anyone is, in principle, against working with others on the spectrum.

They believe correctly. Yes, you can give and hope to receive. That is a way. But is it the best way? In general - no. As they say, "hope is not a method". I like that saying. This does not mean that you should never give without receiving, by the way, only that merely hoping to receive is a recipe for disappointment.



Yeah, but good luck getting them to follow you. Unless you have food for them, of course.

The sad thing is that there are posters on WP who actively reject the idea of working together. I believe they are in the minority of active posters, but they are there.

While I don't care to put words in Vicky's keyboard, she has been putting together an event in Colorado for early next year (see "AutHaven, Because We Have a Dream Too").

Over the more than 6 years I've been on WP, I've gone back and forth on if the lack of structure is a situation where there is no currently available project, or if it a limitation created by the message board format. I think it's something of both, but so far attempts to set up a framework to encourage more effective communication have not been successful.

I rang someone to volunteer to help with an asperger's social skills group, but they never called me back. So I am currently limited to trying to give helpful advice on here as far as autistic spectrum solidarity goes.

On the topic of evolution. It depends on selection pressures. Many of the pressures thought to contribute to evolution of species are widely absent in humans. We can mitigate the pressures upon us though the use of technology and mass numbers of people. Much of evolutionary theory tends to be less directly applicable to humans and domesticated species for this reason.

Yes, there has to be specific project for people to work together and figure out what each person is going to do and communicate back and forth about project.

For me, time is problem, as I don't have much of it to work on project, but I can contribute something small.

Also, on projects about autism, it is hard for autistic people to work together, because each person has different idear of what autism is and how autistic traits affect them personally, and might not identify at all with other autistic people with different traits or different perceptions of similar traits, but this problem can be overcome by presenting different perspectives instead of trying to get consensus.

Also Also, some people like me who are not good at advocating or communicating to neurotypical people in neurotypical style might be verry merry berry good at doing other aspects of projects like technical or research, so projects should take advantage of these types of people + skills.

My cat follows me, even without food. I can ask her to come and she comes, I can tell her its time to go upstairs and she comes upstairs with me, and we go to my room and she curls up on my bed.

btbnnyr has described some of the problems well there. Also, needing to split up a big project into small parts and people knowing their parts, and knowing what the project is. I can blog, but I do have executive functioning difficulties and do have problems with the big picture.

I would like to see an autism organization like asan or grasp go beyond advocacy to start practical projects to create things that address common problems for autistic people.

I also like agentpalpatine's wiki idear as informational resource on autism by autistic people.

I can't participate in advocacy online or offline, because I lack too many abilities for those areas, but these types of projects are perfect for me to work on.

I don't think that we can help but affect the way society functions. Freedom of expression and difference seem to be gaining in strength in North America. The more we behave in a way that is individually natural, the more tolerant people will become. (Either that, or there'll be a backlash which could be ugly.)
Even though we spat a lot, I think autistic people are capable of working together, maybe just more quietly.

That would be awesome.

The thing I've been trying to work on (very very slowly) is a resource of suggestions of what to do for different types of sensory issues. I have all the data in my head (seriously, someone asked me ideas for "I have vertigo from light sensitivity" and I gave them almost a page response), but I'm struggling to get it out.

If someone starts another practical project I can help without dedicating too much time to I'll actively join in. I'm overdedicating myself at the moment though, because I don't have good time management skills currently, and see things I want to do, but not how tired I am with how much I'm doing. So I've been doing a lot of starting and not going anywhere, or saying I'll do and not doing, or going VERY slowly on projects.

But I want to help! On another one. Other than math education, and sensory sensitivities (which is a personal project currently, though I might open it up if others are interested), and autism service dog reform...

I can herd with food? Oh, I so wish that I could send food into this Forum. Cooking food for a crowd is something I have done my entire life, and I love it.

So, why couldn't we co-operate? Wasn't that line made up by the same fine folks who brought us "Autistics have no empathy."? I believe that we can co-operate and work together,BETTER than NT's. We just haven't had that much practice.

Why better? Because autistics, as a whole, tend to be much less likely to live for the sake of gaining power, prestige, and a lust to be top alpha dog that will abandon any integrity to achieve that position. Do we really need scapegoats, losers, and "less thans" to live and work co-operatively? Maybe they do, but we do not.

I am attempting to rephrase a comment I heard many years ago to make it less politically incorrect [ it was not considered so at the time it was used, often, by a particular person] but I can't find a suitable replacement, so here goes. This person, no matter how much competition they had when looking for employment almost ALWAYS got the job. When I asked him his secret [and yes, he was a socially skilled NT, but so were many of his competition] he told me that he invariably snagged the job when he answered the 'why should we hire you" question. His answer was "Because I do a fantastic job of being both a chief AND an Indian."

NT's tend to NEED to maintain their positions of control and leadership [and if not there to scrap like crazy to attain as high of a position as possible] whereas autistics, who tend to function more on logic, often have no issues with floating from a position of leadership to one of support. Because it's logical. And it's fair. And most of us know from personal experience what being treated grossly unfairly feels like, and, in additional to that, our tendency towards integrity, These are great elements for co-operation.

There are many other reasons, but I will give the ridiculously inane reason that keeps screaming in my soul ,and will most likely illicit criticism, which is, because it's time.{last week, last year. last decade would have been even better, but I'll settle for "immediately if not sooner."]

Recently, we observed the 50th anniversary of MLKs' incredible "I Have a Dream" speech. If you can read that without tingles going up and down your spine, may I suggest you check your pulse. And tingles, heartbeat, or not, did you notice that never once did that great man say anything even close to "Being treated as the human beings we are would be nice, but face it guys, we don't have a clue how to work together cooperatively. Be for real. We don't have much practice at it, and because of the trauma from the generations of torture and enslavement, we;re not really up for it. So, let's all just go home, and remember, this whole thing was a nice thought, but ONLY a dream, nothing else." NO WAY DID HE HAVE THAT ATTITUDE. People, we can do this. Iam BEGGING you to replace why we cannot with HOW we can.

Why don't some of us cats form a herd and get started?

Sheldon's clowder:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzgxQd83vFk[/youtube]

Too funny!

Okay, everyone, remember that our mini autistic clowder retreat [AKA Authaven] is February 22, 23, and 24 [3 nights] 25 miles west of Denver. Yes, it is at a nudist resort [most likely no nudists running around naked, at least no nude nudists] and it only costs $100 per person for accommodations [sorry, shared rooms] food [ I'm doing the cooking, so special requests are fine] entertainment [actually provided by attendees] workshops, and fun and informational little goody bags. [hand decorated by a Girl Scout troop]

We can only accommodate 20 people or less at the lodge we are renting,[which is on well over a hundred acres] so it won't be crazy busy. We are in the most beautiful mountains in the world[ my opinion] and there are amenities available[ pool table, ping pong, sauna, dance area, etc.]. Our theme for this year [first year for AutHaven] is "Because we have a Dream too."