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intriguedaspie
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12 Jul 2015, 10:32 pm

In my opinion, people with autism can and do have extraordinary capabilities. Their special interests allow them to become experts on a specific topic. Why is so much therapy...cognitive behavior therapy, applied behavior analysis, etc., being done to get those with autism away from their special interests? I understand autism is an extremely BROAD spectrum, and as important as social integration is...how different would life be if special interests were nurtured? Can't there be a way to create success out of this incredible knowledge? Create jobs, business opportunities, networking opportunities? What do you think?

Cheers,
~intriguedaspie~



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12 Jul 2015, 10:50 pm

As a behavioral therapist, I can say that autism treatment is not just about special interests. In fact, at our office, quelling special interests is not something we do, unless it gets to a point where it is disruptive. Therapy tackles a lot of difficulties that someone on the autism spectrum might encounter. Language acquisition, motor skills training, social skills training, aversion/phobia treatment, listening skills, etc., are things that we often treat.

I don't see this kind of treatment as detrimental to the positive aspects of autism. Rather, we are doing our best to allow people on the spectrum to lead a more fulfilling and independent life.


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12 Jul 2015, 11:11 pm

If you are different then most people in the thing they care about most or at least is a very high priority for them which is how you socialize they think your are are disordered person, a puzzle to be solved.


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13 Jul 2015, 10:08 am

The good therapies don't squelch special interests. They might teach you how to get yourself away from them when you need to (like, you really should know how to take a break to eat and sleep and go to school or your job); but the good therapists don't try to extinguish them.

Autism is a disorder because it causes impairment in daily life. For example, I have a harder time communicating, I have a lower sensory tolerance, and I have issues transitioning from one activity to another. I have executive dysfunction and simply forget to make contact with other people. Those things are impairments.

Here's the crux of the issue, though:
Being a "disorder" does not negate the fact that there are positive and neutral traits that come along with it.
Being a "disorder" does not negate the talents that people with autism, just like people without autism, can have and benefit from.
People with autism can have skills that are unusually strong--even while they have impairments that are significant and require assistance.
But neither do the skills, talents, and positive traits negate the fact that autism is a disorder, and that people with autism are disabled, and need some kind of help--whether that's minor accommodations or full-time assistance, or anything in between.

Stop taking for granted that disability/disorder means universally negative, and you come up with some surprising conclusions.


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13 Jul 2015, 11:03 am

Callista wrote:
Stop taking for granted that disability/disorder means universally negative, and you come up with some surprising conclusions.


While that may be factually true most people you will deal with including those that are trying to "help" you think of "disability" as universally or mostly negative.


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13 Jul 2015, 11:35 am

Callista wrote:
The good therapies don't squelch special interests. They might teach you how to get yourself away from them when you need to (like, you really should know how to take a break to eat and sleep and go to school or your job); but the good therapists don't try to extinguish them.

Autism is a disorder because it causes impairment in daily life. For example, I have a harder time communicating, I have a lower sensory tolerance, and I have issues transitioning from one activity to another. I have executive dysfunction and simply forget to make contact with other people. Those things are impairments.

Here's the crux of the issue, though:
Being a "disorder" does not negate the fact that there are positive and neutral traits that come along with it.
Being a "disorder" does not negate the talents that people with autism, just like people without autism, can have and benefit from.
People with autism can have skills that are unusually strong--even while they have impairments that are significant and require assistance.
But neither do the skills, talents, and positive traits negate the fact that autism is a disorder, and that people with autism are disabled, and need some kind of help--whether that's minor accommodations or full-time assistance, or anything in between.

Stop taking for granted that disability/disorder means universally negative, and you come up with some surprising conclusions.


Is being gay a disorder? Is being black a disorder? Is being left-handed a disorder?



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13 Jul 2015, 11:45 am

NewTime wrote:
Callista wrote:
The good therapies don't squelch special interests. They might teach you how to get yourself away from them when you need to (like, you really should know how to take a break to eat and sleep and go to school or your job); but the good therapists don't try to extinguish them.

Autism is a disorder because it causes impairment in daily life. For example, I have a harder time communicating, I have a lower sensory tolerance, and I have issues transitioning from one activity to another. I have executive dysfunction and simply forget to make contact with other people. Those things are impairments.

Here's the crux of the issue, though:
Being a "disorder" does not negate the fact that there are positive and neutral traits that come along with it.
Being a "disorder" does not negate the talents that people with autism, just like people without autism, can have and benefit from.
People with autism can have skills that are unusually strong--even while they have impairments that are significant and require assistance.
But neither do the skills, talents, and positive traits negate the fact that autism is a disorder, and that people with autism are disabled, and need some kind of help--whether that's minor accommodations or full-time assistance, or anything in between.

Stop taking for granted that disability/disorder means universally negative, and you come up with some surprising conclusions.


Is being gay a disorder? Is being black a disorder? Is being left-handed a disorder?

No, because they're not impairments.



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13 Jul 2015, 12:00 pm

Autism is a disorder in different ways to different people. Not only because are symptoms different but an individuals requirements to survive and capabilities to do so are different. The special interest itself in therapy is designed for usage to create jobs for the autistic, to create social connection opportunities. The only time it's meant to become a concern is when it impairs your ability to survive, to care for yourself and be independent. If someone treats it outside of this context when it is of no relevant concern then they are idiots.

So it's a disorder in different ways to different people. Perhaps someone can't work because of sensory issues. Perhaps someone struggles with communication so much that it limits there work opportunities. Now this is pointless but socialization itself is not as mute and pointless as it may seem. Having friends, support, aid. Being alone leaves you vulnerable, limits resources, impairs the development of skills so much so that when a difficulty arrives your ability to deal with it may be impaired raising risk of depression, suicide and death. If the only thing we did was have wonderful lives and improve the world then it wouldn't be a disorder. And some do indeed have wonderful lives but that is not the majority and that is why it is not the case.



intriguedaspie
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13 Jul 2015, 12:26 pm

I appreciate all the fresh insight on this topic. Thank you to those who have responded.



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13 Jul 2015, 5:15 pm

I'd argue being black, gay and left handed have actually all been considered impairments in the past.

Autism is a disorder because the vast majority of people are not autistic.


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13 Jul 2015, 6:28 pm

intriguedaspie wrote:
In my opinion, people with autism can and do have extraordinary capabilities. Their special interests allow them to become experts on a specific topic. Why is so much therapy...cognitive behavior therapy, applied behavior analysis, etc., being done to get those with autism away from their special interests? I understand autism is an extremely BROAD spectrum, and as important as social integration is...how different would life be if special interests were nurtured? Can't there be a way to create success out of this incredible knowledge? Create jobs, business opportunities, networking opportunities? What do you think?

I don't think it's easy to build a useful job around an ASDer's special interests. Possible in some cases, with enough give-and-take, but not always by any means. The situation would be a little better if we had a really great social system that was as interested in the happiness and fulfillment of the worker as it was in whacking up productivity to the max. But under the current system, the emphasis is decidedly on the worker wrapping themselves around whatever the job requires, and the rigid nature of the individual's special interest is unlikely to be catered for.

Even under my circumstances (retired and free to do what the heck I like), my Aspie special interest tendencies give me trouble. If I'm not very careful I end up disappearing down a tunnel of hyperfocus that ultimately doesn't do anything particularly useful except satisfy my enthusiasm for some esoteric goal. It's fine up to a point, but I don't know when to stop, and without forcing myself to modify my behaviour, my bills don't get paid (even though the money is there), my partner gets ignored, my body doesn't get washed, and I can't even be bothered to eat and sleep. Without firm (and somewhat annoying) control, my special interests are simply not sustainable in the long term.

Of course, that doesn't mean that I agree with a therapist who wants to destroy an Aspie's special interests. Just that getting the Aspie to acquire some level of control over their obsessions is very likely the only way they'll become able to work in the normal sense of the word.



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13 Jul 2015, 7:14 pm

starfox wrote:
I'd argue being black, gay and left handed have actually all been considered impairments in the past.

Autism is a disorder because the vast majority of people are not autistic.


I think the word "disadvantaged" is a more accurate word for issues related to being a minority. Something like poor planning ability due to executive functioning issues is an impairment not caused by other people. Society decided multitasking is important so that could be describe as a "disadvantage" . Society decided to increase sensory stimulation, so what might have not been an impairment or a minor impairment is now a crippling disadvantage.


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13 Jul 2015, 7:54 pm

NewTime wrote:
Callista wrote:
*snip*
Stop taking for granted that disability/disorder means universally negative, and you come up with some surprising conclusions.


Is being gay a disorder? Is being black a disorder? Is being left-handed a disorder?
I see what you're saying, and I think you're partly correct--but not entirely so.

Disability is what happens when your skills don't match your society's expectations of what the average person should be able to do. Being gay, black, or left-handed involves such a gap, to a small degree; but given simple acceptance (equal treatment), gay, black, or left-handed people can get along without any particular accommodations required. Being left-handed is probably the closest thing on that list to a disability, since left-handed children need slightly different instructions when learning to write, and left-handed adults may be annoyed by various types of equipment that assumes the user will be right-handed. The other two--being gay or black--involve someone with essentially the same skill set as the general population, and who suffer primarily because of prejudice.

Disabled people, like black people, gay people, or left-handed people, are a minority group. Like black or gay people, we need equal rights and freedom from mistreatment; like left-handed people, we benefit from accommodations. But the skill gap, for us, is much more extreme. Consider the problems faced by left-handed people; now consider the problems faced by people who have only a left hand; now consider the problems faced by people who do not have the ability to move either hand. There's a sort of sliding scale, a widening gap between what you can do and what you need to do to interface with the world around you. At a certain point, we call it "disability". Is being left-handed a disability? How about having only nine fingers? How about missing a thumb? Missing an entire hand? It's a continuum.

Notice that what's expected of you is something that's determined by the world around you--not by your actual abilities. Disability is partly determined by expectations: In an illiterate society, dyslexia does not exist. But that doesn't make it any less real in a society where people use written language.

There's a lot that disabled people have in common with other minority groups. Acceptance and celebration of differences is very important to disabled people, gay people, and black people alike. But we do have some particular issues, such as accessibility and freedom from abuse by caregivers, that we face much more often than other minority groups.


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13 Jul 2015, 11:03 pm

Personally i never felt anything was wrong with me either until my psychologist pointed out to me that i am so absorbed into my special interest that i neglect my needs like eating, cleaning myself and taking care of my responsibilities, My sensory issues cause so much distress that i am reluctant to leave my own house let alone my room, i have great difficulty asking for help when i need it and explaining to people when im in trouble. i was lonely, depressed, anxious and didn't feel good about myself.

you see, i was comfortable sitting in my room doing nothing but draw sonic for hours, sometimes days on end, however im 18 now, what would happen if my dad died? or he just couldn't take care of me anymore. It just means i need to learn to cope with my disorder, and yes, it is a disorder or a disability, and if i didn't go to therapy and camps for people on the spectrum, i wouldn't be where i am now, and im confidant about my future. I'm still utterly obsessed with sonic but its more levelled now


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13 Jul 2015, 11:04 pm

Personally i never felt anything was wrong with me either until my psychologist pointed out to me that i am so absorbed into my special interest that i neglect my needs like eating, cleaning myself and taking care of my responsibilities, My sensory issues cause so much distress that i am reluctant to leave my own house let alone my room, i have great difficulty asking for help when i need it and explaining to people when im in trouble. i was lonely, depressed, anxious and didn't feel good about myself.

you see, i was comfortable sitting in my room doing nothing but draw sonic for hours, sometimes days on end, however im 18 now, what would happen if my dad died? or he just couldn't take care of me anymore. It just means i need to learn to cope with my disorder, and yes, it is a disorder or a disability, and if i didn't go to therapy and camps for people on the spectrum, i wouldn't be where i am now, and im confidant about my future. I'm still utterly obsessed with sonic but its more levelled now


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13 Jul 2015, 11:22 pm

starfox wrote:
I'd argue being black, gay and left handed have actually all been considered impairments in the past..


Being homosexual was a disorder in the DSM until 1973.

Up until the 1950's and 1960's in the U.S. it was common for teachers and parents to hit your left hand with a ruler until you wrote with the "correct" hand. It happened to a future American President while living in Indonesia. Trying to force lefties to become righties is still common in Asia.
Bias against left-handed people

Do I even need to mentioned white superiority/black inferiority was the mainstream view well into the 20th century?


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