Men with autism more 'chivalrous'

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I don't know if it's true out IRL, but it's definitely not true on this forum. Unless chivalry means "men telling women what women really think and how women really feel and how women really behave, and then telling women they must be mistaken when the women say 'that's not how I think or feel or behave'". Because I definitely get a lot of THAT here.

ETA: I've rethought this, and it's actually gotten better in that regard lately; it seems like there's been less of the above going on in the last few months.

Last edited by wilburforce on 17 Apr 2016, 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

^ "I am actually a woman. My profile says I am male but I can't fix it."

And see, they even tell you you're not a woman.

...and now that the cat is out of the bag: think of all the extra attention you're gonna get from our male member base now...*shudders*.

But again, just like the stereotypes getting played against you, not all of us males here are like that either.

I agree we tend to learn and follow rules. For it, it was essential for me to "fit in" and to not call attention to myself. However, I am not quite sure it becomes natural and automatic for all of us. I still have a list of rules that run through my head constantly in order to fit in. Look them in the eye, shake their hand, open the door, say "please" and "thank you," don't blurt things out, give people their turn to speak, be polite, etc. It's never become automatic for me, that's part of the reason it's so exhausting to interact with others.

For anyone who's interested, here are the Laws of Chivalry from The Song of Roland c1098-1100. The laws were often abused and corrupted and really only applied to Knights. It was primarily about defending God and Women.

 To fear God and maintain His Church
 To serve the liege lord in valour and faith
 To protect the weak and defenceless
 To give succour to widows and orphans
 To refrain from the wanton giving of offence
 To live by honour and for glory
 To despise pecuniary reward
 To fight for the welfare of all
 To obey those placed in authority
 To guard the honour of fellow knights
 To eschew unfairness, meanness and deceit
 To keep faith
 At all times to speak the truth
 To persevere to the end in any enterprise begun
 To respect the honour of women
 Never to refuse a challenge from an equal
 Never to turn the back upon a foe

If you take out the religious stuff, there's still some good rules there to live by. It's an ideal to aspire to, ie just do your best.

The last two have troubled me ever since I knew them in some form or other. They basically mean anyone stronger than you has a right to use their strength to destroy you unimpeded.

Because....animes.

In my humble experience, saying that is, at best, a blatant invitation for someone distinctly stronger than you---like the taller guy in the first pic---to call you a chicken loudly and clearly, daring you to try and shut him up.

Any "noöne does X to me" assertion is a good way to ask to be publicly shown that someone can and will, in fact, do whatever they like to you and you can't stop them. At least, you can't stop them honorably; maybe you could by catching them off guard or backstabbing them, but this is cowardly. To sum up, anything that might give the weaker party a chance is cowardly. In other words, honorable is what lets the stronger party make use of their superior strength to butcher the weaker one with no tricks that might compromise their fundamental advantage. And this appears to be something normal humans defend instinctively. Everyone naturally hates weak individuals who try to cheat their fate and get away with being weaker than their foes. It probably makes sense from the standpoint of natural selection; after all, humans have been naturally selected to be this way.

^^^^I have to admit that I'm one of those morons. Not that I mean in the way depicted above. But, tell me I can't do something, I will do everything possible to prove you wrong by doing it and doing it well. And then my failings break out of prison and just ruin it all, rioting all over any success or reputation I had earned...Total burnouts....

forum hiccup... deleted

Last edited by Feralucce on 19 Apr 2016, 2:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

1) I'll start with this "Because, really, anyone who thinks chivalry only applied to battlefield situations doesn't have a clue what he / she is talking around." That was insulting to my intelligence.

2) You assume I went to an american college... how quaint.

3) because wikipedia is accurate on all things... got news for you... a source that can be edited (LITERALLY) by anyone and everyone is no source for accurate information...

and lastly... why are you still addressing me on this topic? I stated I was done... to avoid friction... please accept that.

I have rarely been treated like prey by a man on the autism spectrum, but I have been treated that way by neurotypical men more times than I would care to count. They usually figure out pretty quickly that I'm wise to their game and they leave me alone, but not always. Being married or not interested doesn't always help.

Most autistic men have treated me like a human being.

There is a double edged sword at play here:

I have had at least two women in the last 2 years complain that I was harassing them. It's because (1) I teach art and tend to think in clinical terms and will talk about it period. So, if it's art class related, what's the problem? Well, I am discovering that I give off non verbal cues that are unintentional. Soooooo, was I hitting on them or doing something with an ulterior motive? Nope...could it have been taken that way? Maybe...I cannot say because I'm in a quagmire of what's going on inside vs what I am projecting, so I will say, :Wait and see." But, it's not helped by the bad outgoing communications. I seem to have 'stupid radar' that works directly inversely proportional to the importance of the subject that goes off and makes me sound like a bumbling idiot. And then, I compound it by trying to explain what I really mean and it just devolves from there.

(2) Along those same lines, and with the staring thing or the general discomfort with social clumsiness, I know I can be a bit, albeit not on purpose, creepy. And, those are things I cannot control well at this time. When I catch myself staring, I can stop. It's the becoming aware of it that's a problem. How long before I, or someone else, or worse, the 'object of study' notice and it gets completely awkward?

Oh, well, I can't speak for other people. I have heard a lot of women talk about the way aspies stare (behind the aspie's back). I won't go into my Uncanny Valley speech here, but that's my theory behind why they get creeped out. A lot of my family members are autistic, so I know the difference between a nervous aspie stare and a predator stare. All you can do is drop some kind of excuse about how you have a habit of staring off when you're thinking.

I don't know if this will make you feel any better, but an actual predator will not directly stare a woman. They will let the woman "catch" them staring and then smile like "Oh, I'm caught." Then they'll go up to her, talk to her, and ask her a lot of questions about herself. He might let her catch him checking her out. He'll smile a lot while making eye contact, as he listens to her. He might try to make it seem like he respects her by actually saying something like, "I respect that you're doing [whatever]." Most women are socially trained to think this is charming. If you pay attention to the way men act in movies, this is typically how the "hot guy" acts. It's not how a person who is really interested in you behaves, nor is it natural. It is definitely not how autistic men act. I have never seen one pull even have of this predator act off, even if he seemed to be trying.