Do you believe that Aspergers is a mild form of autism?

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Seff
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04 Jan 2018, 5:05 am

I read this thread again last night and got really angry at the Aspie bashing, but I left it and people have replied or extended on their comments and I now realise I’d mis-interpreted what was being said.

I think it’s because I perceive myself as an Aspie, I have only recently had a diagnosis of ASD so I’m still coming to terms with what it means to me and what it might mean to others around me and it really bothered me that I could encounter people out there who might claim I am lying about a diagnosis to get attention or to exuse myself from being a horrible person.

I don’t see why someone would want to pretend they are on the spectrum - it’s difficult enough pretending I’m not so why go through the stress??

It’s a difficult situation because although I’d love to be a better person socially, for the most part I do enjoy being me.
I think if someone offered me a instant cure I’d have to decline. I like my methods and to be honest I don’t think I could live like an NT.

So just to be clear, if I were to refer to myself as an Aspie, would I be causing anyone here any offence? Or have I just got the wrong end of the stick and people here are just sick of NTs claiming to be on the spectrum?
:roll:


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04 Jan 2018, 5:23 am

EzraS wrote:
HistoryGal wrote:
These wanna be Aspies are all over. Just because you have not encountered them does not invalidate their existence.

This is a grave injustice to those people who endure the difficulties of Asperger's.


Oh I wrote about that a year or maybe two years ago and it started a shitstorm. Older people who aren't anywhere near the whole social media package, don't know what is going on.

And I will be even more controversial here and be accused of being sexists, but it seems to me it's more prevalent in teen girls and women in their 20's. They are like coming out of the woodwork with superficial anecdotal reasons why they are an aspie and I am tired of it. There I finally said it folks, tar and feather me.


Interstingly the term “wannabe” was coined to describe teen and 20 something mostly females who dressed up and idolized Madonna back in the the mid 1980’s


Since I actually remember the original Madonna Wannabes that makes me one of those older people. That also makes me an experienced Autistic. While I have seen posts that I suspect are from wanabees they do not predominate here. If they predominate at the website or group of people you hang out with leave that group and do not look back. They give a you a warped sense of what people people think. Youtube hits are nice but most of the time they do not put food on the table. If you go around your job saying I am am autistic just like Dr. Murphy your employer will likely think you are an entitled brat who might have a meltdown and sue them if they look at you the wrong way.

Madonna turned out to be more than a fad hasn’t she? Lesson, reality lasts. Autistics will be here long after the Tumbler type wanabees have moved on to some other thing.


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04 Jan 2018, 5:32 am

Seff wrote:
I read this thread again last night and got really angry at the Aspie bashing, but I left it and people have replied or extended on their comments and I now realise I’d mis-interpreted what was being said.

I think it’s because I perceive myself as an Aspie, I have only recently had a diagnosis of ASD so I’m still coming to terms with what it means to me and what it might mean to others around me and it really bothered me that I could encounter people out there who might claim I am lying about a diagnosis to get attention or to exuse myself from being a horrible person.

I don’t see why someone would want to pretend they are on the spectrum - it’s difficult enough pretending I’m not so why go through the stress??

It’s a difficult situation because although I’d love to be a better person socially, for the most part I do enjoy being me.
I think if someone offered me a instant cure I’d have to decline. I like my methods and to be honest I don’t think I could live like an NT.

So just to be clear, if I were to refer to myself as an Aspie, would I be causing anyone here any offence? Or have I just got the wrong end of the stick and people here are just sick of NTs claiming to be on the spectrum?
:roll:

It is the latter. People call themselves aspie here all the time.


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04 Jan 2018, 5:41 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
xatrix26 wrote:
What I do find to be a major source of irritation are those who think that being "on the spectrum" whether it's Asperger's Syndrome or not is something cool. We have Jerry Seinfeld to thank for this because of that famous interview where he thought he was on the spectrum but then later recanted his statement.


This type of thing predated Seinfeld.
Dear Moby and Miley: Please Shut up about the Disorders You Do Not Actually Have
Quote:
In a profile in today's New York Times, Moby admitted that though he doesn't have Asperger syndrome, he likes to "pretend I do. It makes me sound more interesting."


His actions were disgusting.

I do not hate my Aspergers and have gotten good things as well as plenty of s**t for my “traits”. I still stand by my earlier statement no matter how much the Autism wannabe thing is real the perception is the problem. I have to admit that I have to think twice about saying I am autistic even to people who need to know because of the perception that Autism is a trendy condition used to excuse snowflakeness.


It has nothing to do with who said it first or when the Asperger's fad came to Hollywood or if it pre-dated Seinfeld. The timing is of no importance at all.

What IS important is that Seinfeld really brought it to the forefront because HIS name is by far the most high profile. Those other two nobodys - Moby and Miley Cyrus are just cracker-jack sideshow candy compared to Seinfeld's profile and celebrity.

In THAT game of Hollywood, whose profile is larger than whose is the only currency worth mentioning AND Seinfeld also re-canted what he said about being "on the spectrum" which made his example FAR more worth mentioning.


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04 Jan 2018, 5:52 am

So just to be clear, if I were to refer to myself as an Aspie, would I be causing anyone here any offence? Or have I just got the wrong end of the stick and people here are just sick of NTs claiming to be on the spectrum?
:roll:[/quote]

I might be wrong but this is how I also read this thread or perhaps that autism and Asperger's are really just variants of the same thing and it not the case that you can pick and choose and just be an 'aspie' neurotypcial when really we are talking about neurotypcial people sharing (SOME LIMITED) traits with people with autism.

In my very limited experience it is incredibly hard for anyone on the outside to say what is 'mild' and what isn't. For example, I worked 60 hr weeks in my late teens with a boy with autism, tubular sclerosis and epilepsy. I am now a mother of a girl with suspected autism (and PDA). It is not my place to say what is more severe in these cases. Whilst the boy's abilities were extremely limited by his various health issues and cognitive abilities he appeared to have a good life. He wasn't able to go to school and I was his full time one-on-one carer. We spent our days doing things he liked - riding trains, and I like to think that he had a fair degree of enjoyment. We were friends and he remembered me but he was not verbal. My daughter on the other hand gets through a full day at a normal school, has a few (one mainly) close friends and if you didn't know her well, or know autism well, you would probably think she was just like everyone else or indeed "quirky." However, the stress, anxiety and trauma she experiences in having to go out each day into a neurotypical world is huge. The demand avoidance she experiences in trying to do simple tasks (get dressed for the day, go to bed for the night) is sometimes crippling. My whole family has had to rethink how we operate, what our priorities should be and how we can best support her so as to limit the stress on her mental health and do everything we can to ensure she retains a positive view of herself and her life. In terms of the outside world though, they assume and expect her to be and act "normal." Her teacher who is the school special needs teacher and claims to have experience with autism couldn't even see through the mask and it has taken months for me to impress on her that my daughter is having to do a fair amount more work than your average student to cope in school. In fact she (the teacher) still seeks to install on me again and again that my daughter is a pleasure to have at school and she is a lovely well-behaved girl. Would I rather she just was herself at school and they had to deal with the fallout of her stress? Maybe. I hate that she has to compartmentalise. I want her to live in a world where it is ok for her to be a confident young girl with HFA/ Aspergers who is able to voice her needs and has them taken seriously. In contrast, the young boy I cared for, whilst the implications on his health and cognitive abilities was far more 'severe' he would never have to compartmentalise and try to be anything other than what he was. It is very stressful being "forced" to be something other than what you are. There is nothing 'mild' about that.


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04 Jan 2018, 10:09 am

Pretty much all the scientific literature says yes to the OP's question, so to counter that, I'd need to make a really strong case, I have not the energy for that right now.

From what I understand, Aspergers seems to be somewhere between autism and NVLD, but probably closer to NVLD. So... I guess it's a combination of a mild form of autism mixed with NVLD.


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04 Jan 2018, 10:24 am

Got to laugh at the Madonna reference. Sadder still is our society for promoting someone like that.

Nobody who has gone through the trouble of locating this page and signed up in my opinion is pretending anything. There are plenty of venues where people do indeed seek trendy labels. Aspie makes me think of Trekkie....you know Star Trek.



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04 Jan 2018, 10:43 am

xatrix26 wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
xatrix26 wrote:
What I do find to be a major source of irritation are those who think that being "on the spectrum" whether it's Asperger's Syndrome or not is something cool. We have Jerry Seinfeld to thank for this because of that famous interview where he thought he was on the spectrum but then later recanted his statement.


This type of thing predated Seinfeld.
Dear Moby and Miley: Please Shut up about the Disorders You Do Not Actually Have
Quote:
In a profile in today's New York Times, Moby admitted that though he doesn't have Asperger syndrome, he likes to "pretend I do. It makes me sound more interesting."


His actions were disgusting.

I do not hate my Aspergers and have gotten good things as well as plenty of s**t for my “traits”. I still stand by my earlier statement no matter how much the Autism wannabe thing is real the perception is the problem. I have to admit that I have to think twice about saying I am autistic even to people who need to know because of the perception that Autism is a trendy condition used to excuse snowflakeness.


It has nothing to do with who said it first or when the Asperger's fad came to Hollywood or if it pre-dated Seinfeld. The timing is of no importance at all.

What IS important is that Seinfeld really brought it to the forefront because HIS name is by far the most high profile. Those other two nobodys - Moby and Miley Cyrus are just cracker-jack sideshow candy compared to Seinfeld's profile and celebrity.

In THAT game of Hollywood, whose profile is larger than whose is the only currency worth mentioning AND Seinfeld also re-canted what he said about being "on the spectrum" which made his example FAR more worth mentioning.


I was on WP before Seinfeld opened his mouth and at times in 2014 there were three or four continuous threads about Aspergers being overdiagnosed, trendy, fakers etc. I am not saying Seinfeld was unimportant. I saw the interview and
immediately posted about it along with other people and this place in the words of Ezra went bonkers. What was notable was after the backlash and Seinfeld reversing himself celebrities "coming out" dropped to near zero. But with the high profile in Hollywood now I do expect a wave of it. Miley Cyrus is very popular among the younger demographic being discussed and used "bi polar" in a caviar way.

At that time some long time members left. Others that were professionally diagnosed began wonder if they were a bad person who faked themselves and their clinicians. It it still common even now for new members suspecting themselves to be on the spectrum to add a unneccassary defensive caveat. I wonder how many actual autistics will not for have not found out they are on the spectrum either because they think their suspicions are delusions or the fear not being believed? IMHO probably a lot more then NT's who are deluding themselves or faking Aspergers too be trendy.


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“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 04 Jan 2018, 11:13 am, edited 2 times in total.

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04 Jan 2018, 10:46 am

HistoryGal wrote:
Got to laugh at the Madonna reference. Sadder still is our society for promoting someone like that.

Nobody who has gone through the trouble of locating this page and signed up in my opinion is pretending anything. There are plenty of venues where people do indeed seek trendy labels. Aspie makes me think of Trekkie....you know Star Trek.


We have had 90,000 or so members over the years, I am sure we have had people like that but your basic point I believe is correct most here are not there for those reasons even the "I am an Aspie" people.

I am glad you found the Madonna reference funny. Of course there was


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“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


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04 Jan 2018, 10:52 am

Seff wrote:
I read this thread again last night and got really angry at the Aspie bashing, but I left it and people have replied or extended on their comments and I now realise I’d mis-interpreted what was being said.

I think it’s because I perceive myself as an Aspie, I have only recently had a diagnosis of ASD so I’m still coming to terms with what it means to me and what it might mean to others around me and it really bothered me that I could encounter people out there who might claim I am lying about a diagnosis to get attention or to exuse myself from being a horrible person.

I don’t see why someone would want to pretend they are on the spectrum - it’s difficult enough pretending I’m not so why go through the stress??

It’s a difficult situation because although I’d love to be a better person socially, for the most part I do enjoy being me.
I think if someone offered me a instant cure I’d have to decline. I like my methods and to be honest I don’t think I could live like an NT.

So just to be clear, if I were to refer to myself as an Aspie, would I be causing anyone here any offence? Or have I just got the wrong end of the stick and people here are just sick of NTs claiming to be on the spectrum?
:roll:


The latter. I'm sick of the fakers making it difficult for people who are really on the spectrum to get help.



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04 Jan 2018, 11:07 am

elsapelsa wrote:
I might be wrong but this is how I also read this thread or perhaps that autism and Asperger's are really just variants of the same thing and it not the case that you can pick and choose and just be an 'aspie' neurotypcial when really we are talking about neurotypcial people sharing (SOME LIMITED) traits with people with autism.

In my very limited experience it is incredibly hard for anyone on the outside to say what is 'mild' and what isn't. For example, I worked 60 hr weeks in my late teens with a boy with autism, tubular sclerosis and epilepsy. I am now a mother of a girl with suspected autism (and PDA). It is not my place to say what is more severe in these cases. Whilst the boy's abilities were extremely limited by his various health issues and cognitive abilities he appeared to have a good life. He wasn't able to go to school and I was his full time one-on-one carer. We spent our days doing things he liked - riding trains, and I like to think that he had a fair degree of enjoyment. We were friends and he remembered me but he was not verbal. My daughter on the other hand gets through a full day at a normal school, has a few (one mainly) close friends and if you didn't know her well, or know autism well, you would probably think she was just like everyone else or indeed "quirky." However, the stress, anxiety and trauma she experiences in having to go out each day into a neurotypical world is huge. The demand avoidance she experiences in trying to do simple tasks (get dressed for the day, go to bed for the night) is sometimes crippling. My whole family has had to rethink how we operate, what our priorities should be and how we can best support her so as to limit the stress on her mental health and do everything we can to ensure she retains a positive view of herself and her life. In terms of the outside world though, they assume and expect her to be and act "normal." Her teacher who is the school special needs teacher and claims to have experience with autism couldn't even see through the mask and it has taken months for me to impress on her that my daughter is having to do a fair amount more work than your average student to cope in school. In fact she (the teacher) still seeks to install on me again and again that my daughter is a pleasure to have at school and she is a lovely well-behaved girl. Would I rather she just was herself at school and they had to deal with the fallout of her stress? Maybe. I hate that she has to compartmentalise. I want her to live in a world where it is ok for her to be a confident young girl with HFA/ Aspergers who is able to voice her needs and has them taken seriously. In contrast, the young boy I cared for, whilst the implications on his health and cognitive abilities was far more 'severe' he would never have to compartmentalise and try to be anything other than what he was. It is very stressful being "forced" to be something other than what you are. There is nothing 'mild' about that.


My sister had meltdowns almost every day at school until she moved to a different school. Her teachers at this school didn't think she had autism because her autism behaviours didn't show at school. My sister is one of those people that copes fine if her needs are met. School still exhausted her and she would meltdown at home.
School was exhausting for me too. It took everything I had to get through school each day and put up with people who were horrible to me. Teachers didn't think I had autism either because I was well behaved in school.



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04 Jan 2018, 11:48 am

^^ sorry you had to go through that Elaine. It sucks. You know what makes me most angry is that if they are so inexperienced with how autism presents in girls at least they could take parents seriously. The doctors have been even worse. Two of the senior doctors have refused to offer any help and just keep saying it is a "home" problem as it doesn't show at school. It makes me so upset how many girls (and boys) are out there without the proper support.


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04 Jan 2018, 11:51 am

Amazing all these school personnel with all these degrees don't know jack s**t about autism.



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05 Jan 2018, 4:00 pm

Of course, the DSMV 5 got rid of that rediculous lable.

Most people who think they have ASD just have social anxiety. ASD is not just about social anxiety in fact it's usually the opposite. Autistic people are mostly confrontational.



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05 Jan 2018, 4:27 pm

SIDWULF wrote:
Of course, the DSMV 5 got rid of that rediculous lable.

Autistic people are mostly confrontational.


Huh?



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05 Jan 2018, 8:18 pm

Yes, to both the "mild" and the "autism" bit. "Mild" just means "less severe" in this case, it doesn't mean it's no big deal.

ASPartOfMe wrote:
At that time some long time members left. Others that were professionally diagnosed began wonder if they were a bad person who faked themselves and their clinicians. It it still common even now for new members suspecting themselves to be on the spectrum to add a unneccassary defensive caveat. I wonder how many actual autistics will not for have not found out they are on the spectrum either because they think their suspicions are delusions or the fear not being believed? IMHO probably a lot more then NT's who are deluding themselves or faking Aspergers too be trendy.
I've not seen this happen with Aspergers but I've seen it happen a lot with depression. It's frowned upon to consider yourself mentally ill if you don't have a diagnosis, but why would you go to the doctor at all if you didn't think you were ill? It's a catch-22 and leaves people not seeking help for fear of finding out they're just a snowflake. There are people who pretend to have specific mental health problems but anyone doing that must be deeply unhappy anyway, surely? I'm actually terrified of finding out I don't have AS, because that would mean that I struggle with things because I'm weak and pathetic, and people didn't used to take to me because I am a bad person. I understand why people want to put a label on their suffering to take the blame off them.


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