Talking to Liars

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A lot of Aspies say that, but when someone on WP be's truthful with someone, they get offended and can't handle the truth. I'm not saying it's you, I'm just saying that I've often seen it go on here.

I can't always handle the truth but I still don't go around telling people to be blunt with me then getting offended when they do. If I really do want an honest answer or opinion (and I mean very bluntly honest) then I'll have to prepare myself first for the worst possible insult and not be offended by anything.

I'm not saying I want everyone to tell lies like saying the sky's green, but I still prefer things sugarcoated or at least kept civil rather than a blunt remark that could upset me.

If Aspies wanted 100% honesty all the time, then job interviews might go a little bit like this:-

Employer: So what makes you want this job?
You: I just need to pay my bills and this is the first convenient job that came up
Employer: What do you like to do in your spare time?
You: Just watch TV really, I'm pretty lazy
Employer: Do you like customers?
You: Not really but I can pretend to like them just to get through the day
Employer: Where did you find out about this job?
You: I can't really remember, I think I just see it advertised in the window as I passed the other day
Employer: What sort of hours are you looking for?
You: Well, part-time so that I can get rent rebate and more free time, and not weekends because I like to see my friends and get blotto
Employer: Have you shopped here before?
You: Nah, didn't even know this shop was here
Employer: Will you be prepared for all different duties?
You: No thanks, I only want to hide away in the store room accepting deliveries
Employer: Is there anything about you that we should know about?
You: Well I get tired easily so I might have to take a nap in the office, and when I'm in a bad mood I lash out so just be careful, and I am not deaf but I often pretend that I am just as an excuse to ignore people. Oh and I have dyslexia which I shouldn't tell you really in case you won't want to hire me
Employer: Well, thank you for coming to the interview and I will say now that it was a complete waste of both of our time because I was just going to hire my nephew anyway. Have a nice day!

I don't think you would get far in life if you were this honest.

Nice one Joe90, I especially like the nephew bit at the end

^
Yes, the employer wouldn't like it

The strange thing is, I can't shake the feeling that I want the world to be like that, i.e. just being straight about everything. When it's job interviews there might be a moral case for it - i.e. how did it ever come to this, where nobody stands a chance of being taken seriously unless they present a ridiculously false, glowing image of themselves and make all kinds of pie-in-the-sky promises they've no intention of keeping? What right do employers think they have to expect anything better than the real attitude of the average person? All this "sell yourself" thing just plays into the hands of a dirty world.

When it comes to other people, these days I have some understanding and sympathy for the need to be economical with the truth here and there. I wouldn't tell a dying religious person that there's no afterlife even though I'm pretty sure there isn't. I wouldn't want to betray my friends' secrets. I try to see some of the hard-to-believe compliments I get as just their way of trying to make me feel good, and to appreciate the kind thought behind it, assuming that's what drives it. Even I can get tired of too much challenging bluntness - there's a limit to the awkward and negative input I can deal with in a given time.

But comparing myself to the mainstream, there seems to be a huge difference in the attitude to candour, and I don't think I'll ever let go of the idea that there's a better way of interacting with people than all this schmooze and fake promising that goes on. It's called being genuine.

I'm sorry you've been through this: I have a similar issue trusting others, and being let down. I absolutely loathe being lied to by people who work for government or iin roles that come with responsibility - it really gets my back up. I dislike having to question everything and whether I'm being strung along.

^^ yes, exactly. It has taken me decades to realize that won’t change.

^^ ^^ Ahh, yes. Petty officials with agendas. My mother used to call it "being given the run-around." Nobody can help you, but you can keep them all entertained and employed, while their friends get what they want right away.

The difference between what should be and what is...
There can be a balance though, to be practical about it, basic life skills and the like, different environments require more of the schmoozing and fakery.
I think buying into the delusion of doublespeak is group think on a scale that alarms me.
Edit, its not really buying into it though, if its the norm you're born into.

Just like everyone lies, everyone claims that and most of them are lying when they do so.

If it's infrequent I suck-it-up and get on with life. If it's more common than reasonable I start detaching and don't rely on the person if the truth matters.

Indeed I've compromised, though always grudgingly and always the bare minimum to get by, chiefly for survival in the world of work and dealing with service providers. I mostly draw a line at actively schmoozing, so it's really more a matter of discretion, i.e. concealing how I really feel rather than really playing their game. I can't even bring myself to ask trivial social questions such as "how's your family" unless I happen to feel genuinely curious, to give a compliment when it would be less than honest, or to fake enthusiasm just to appear to be going with the flow. If there's no truth in it, it just won't happen. I'm unhappy if I can't be genuine. There have been plenty of times when concealing my contempt for their social mores has become impossible and I've felt compelled to "publish and be damned," and a few others when I've managed to bottle it by the skin of my teeth. And lots of times I've figured that people must have sensed that I somehow wasn't really entering into the spirit of their thing.

So one of my main coping strategies has been to avoid environments in which the tension between my nature and their nature would be too great. I selected my job largely on the grounds that there would be no dress code and little requirement to deal with people who might expect fake behaviour or so-called social skills. I selected my friends even more carefully. There was a guy at work who said he'd noticed me when they were showing me round the place at my interview, and he said he'd noticed I hadn't worn a tie. He congratulated me on being so rebellious and said he'd realised from my appearance that I wasn't the type to knuckle under to conventional expectations. The odd thing was, I'd felt I was conforming, because from my point of view it was something of a humiliating sell-out not to turn up in jeans and a t-shirt.

I hate mainstream gatherings and rituals, and very rarely go to them. Rather than go along with the herd, I've always picked individuals off, looking for those who, like me, aren't comfortable with the hive mind. I look for people who agree with me that life is too short to not be yourself or to waste time schmoozing when you can fast-track to deeper and more rewarding communication.

I guess my parents rather stood apart from society, particularly my father who always did things his own odd but surprisingly practical way. I suppose that's why I never internalised the hive-mind ideology. I didn't even know there was a hive mind for decades.

I have not been able to find someone really interested in truth for decades, and the information superhighway is melting into puddle of opinion like tar. Rationalization regularly passes as rationality, its opposite. I feel increasingly isolated.

Dishonesty is the primary social lubricant, although alcohol often can substitute.

The social lubricants are called "white lies" and do no harm, usually just saving time on futile discussion. I'm concerned about the lies used to perpetuate injustice.

That seems fair, but based on the original post I'm not sure the topic has ever actually been lies that perpetuate injustice so much as lies told out of convenience, or lies told in good faith by someone who later failed to make an effort to keep their word.

^
There's also the complication, with these "broken promises" type of lies, that in some cases the promise-breaker may have intended at the time to do what they said they'd do, but found themselves unable to, or changed their minds, or simply forgot. Those instances aren't exactly lies, perhaps, but some of them do suggest a lack of integrity.

It took me decades to learn that when people said "We should get together sometime" or "I'll call you again" or "I'd love to hear more about that later" they don't mean it. I was once casually invited to a birthday party (We're having a party on Sunday for so and so's birthday, why don't you come?) and when I showed up no one was expecting me and it was embarrassing for all concerned.

sorry to know that happened to you,,,,,,, doublespeak by NTs can be crazy making