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Dandansson
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25 Nov 2021, 5:53 am

So I'm supposed to like dogs a lot and be good with them because of ASD.
But I am really a person who find dogs difficult and I don't really like them.
The thing is: many people with ASD are good at acting or being with animals.
I see a connection here: they are very good at prosodi and body language and you need this as an actor or an animal person.
How can people have ASD and be good at things that ASD peoole should struggle with?



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25 Nov 2021, 6:14 am

Dandansson wrote:
So I'm supposed to like dogs a lot and be good with them because of ASD.


Thats simply not true. I have Asperger and I am afraid of dogs (I was bitten by one when I was little).

Even some of well known ASD traits don't apply to me: I don't have sensory issues and I am not opposed to changes. And I am not the only one to whom some ASD traits don't apply. So why would you ever think that random things like liking dogs would apply to everyone, if that is not even considered an ASD trait, unlike some I just mentioned?



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25 Nov 2021, 6:18 am

Dandansson wrote:
So I'm supposed to like dogs a lot and be good with them because of ASD.
But I am really a person who find dogs difficult and I don't really like them.
The thing is: many people with ASD are good at acting or being with animals.
I see a connection here: they are very good at prosodi and body language and you need this as an actor or an animal person.
How can people have ASD and be good at things that ASD peoole should struggle with?


I'll use the overused phrase in our community: "When you've met one autistic person, you've met ONE autistic person." There is nothing abnormal about you not liking or wanting to be around animals. I've met several autistic people who think they are "too much".

I, personally, do not like other people's pets/animals. They are a wildcard, and they are often badly behaved (not through a fault of their own). I get along well with my own dogs because I can train alongside them and we know each other.


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Dandansson
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25 Nov 2021, 9:21 am

Flown wrote:
Dandansson wrote:
So I'm supposed to like dogs a lot and be good with them because of ASD.
But I am really a person who find dogs difficult and I don't really like them.
The thing is: many people with ASD are good at acting or being with animals.
I see a connection here: they are very good at prosodi and body language and you need this as an actor or an animal person.
How can people have ASD and be good at things that ASD peoole should struggle with?


I'll use the overused phrase in our community: "When you've met one autistic person, you've met ONE autistic person." There is nothing abnormal about you not liking or wanting to be around animals. I've met several autistic people who think they are "too much".

I, personally, do not like other people's pets/animals. They are a wildcard, and they are often badly behaved (not through a fault of their own). I get along well with my own dogs because I can train alongside them and we know each other.

I was saying that it woyöd actually be weird to be good at body language and prosody when talking to animals but have difficulties being around people.
Infants seem a lot easier than animals.



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25 Nov 2021, 9:58 am

Dandansson wrote:
Flown wrote:
Dandansson wrote:
So I'm supposed to like dogs a lot and be good with them because of ASD.
But I am really a person who find dogs difficult and I don't really like them.
The thing is: many people with ASD are good at acting or being with animals.
I see a connection here: they are very good at prosodi and body language and you need this as an actor or an animal person.
How can people have ASD and be good at things that ASD peoole should struggle with?


I'll use the overused phrase in our community: "When you've met one autistic person, you've met ONE autistic person." There is nothing abnormal about you not liking or wanting to be around animals. I've met several autistic people who think they are "too much".

I, personally, do not like other people's pets/animals. They are a wildcard, and they are often badly behaved (not through a fault of their own). I get along well with my own dogs because I can train alongside them and we know each other.

I was saying that it woyöd actually be weird to be good at body language and prosody when talking to animals but have difficulties being around people.
Infants seem a lot easier than animals.


Actually I can see the logic behind it. Yes, animals also show emotions. But their emotions are less complex than human emotions. So if you can't process human emotions, you replace it with animal emotions that you "can" process.

But again, being able to explain why "some" people on ASD like animals is not the same as saying they should "all" like them. The ones that do, might like them for the reasons stated above. The ones that don't, might have all kinds of other reasons not to.

As far as infants being easier than animals, thats a good question. Temple Grandin didn't seem to agree. She was even asked about it and she said that even as infants people are already very complex to the point that she couldn't keep up. Although, at least to me, it feels like a big exaggeration to make an amusing point. But since Temple Grandin doesn't sound like the kind of person to exaggerate, I am guessing she meant exactly what she said.

But in any case, there are all kinds of other reasons to like animals better than little kids. For example animals don't cry all the time like 2 year old would. So if autism confines someone to choosing between little kids and animals, its not that big of a leap to say they will choose animals.



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25 Nov 2021, 10:52 am

I haven’t heard anything before about being good at acting, except for “masking,” which I suppose would be like playing the role of an NT (which I seem to be entirely incapable of doing with any level of success). I seem to have a much better intuitive understanding of non-human body language than human, though I’m not really well-suited for most dogs, I’ve come to realize. I think that’s mostly due to temperament, for me. I was lucky to end up with one who’s more laid-back and stuff.

I somehow manage to be pretty “textbook” while not fitting most stereotypes like that, besides being generally good with animals and being an extreme introvert.


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When you assume, it makes an a** out of u and me.


CinderashAutomaton
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25 Nov 2021, 11:14 am

It's been awhile since I touched on this topic so I'm probably going to struggle conveying it properly or accurately, but a great way to understand human behavior variance in general (including subsets like autism) is to consider the dynamics of emergent complexity.

Every higher layer of complexity introduces all kinds of additional variety that dwarfs their roots. You might start with, say, just 10 different rules, but after several layers you could be dealing with an uncountably large number variety.

ASD and observable behavior are most definitely not on the same layer. ASD also isn't the complete 'ruleset' of our identity and get mixed up with other stuff as it goes along. Combined, ASD + normal human variance turns the base 'ruleset' of ASD into a wide range of possible behaviors which only TEND to gravitate around some common features, but aren't guaranteed.

And just like how such a simple thing as an electron being pushed around can give rise to something so different from the world before it as computers, just a few certain somethings within human variance can change a common ASD behavior into something completely different.

And that's the reason so many autists go undiagnosed, having no clue they might even be autistic, for so long.

When I was trying to learn about autism after I realized I was, at 30, it frustrated the hell out of me because so many of the behaviors and difficulties I saw described had very little to do with me, and offered me very little insight into my own condition. Portrayals of Aspergers in media just wasn't me, and I couldn't see myself in the more severe cases of autism I've seen IRL either. It took me a long time to realize the common roots and how they expressed themselves so differently in me. And I'm still learning about it all.


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25 Nov 2021, 11:56 am

Each person that has ASD is unique. I don't know who devised the "one size fits all mentality". It almost sounds like somebody who doesn't have ASD came up with this.



Dandansson
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25 Nov 2021, 12:18 pm

dragonsanddemons wrote:
I haven’t heard anything before about being good at acting, except for “masking,” which I suppose would be like playing the role of an NT (which I seem to be entirely incapable of doing with any level of success). I seem to have a much better intuitive understanding of non-human body language than human, though I’m not really well-suited for most dogs, I’ve come to realize. I think that’s mostly due to temperament, for me. I was lucky to end up with one who’s more laid-back and stuff.

I somehow manage to be pretty “textbook” while not fitting most stereotypes like that, besides being generally good with animals and being an extreme introvert.

Masking? :?: What does that refer to?

https://www.aspergers101.com/acting-and-aspergers/



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25 Nov 2021, 12:24 pm

I used to think no Aspie likes dogs because of the loud barking. I used to get baffled when Aspies owned dogs. As a child I was terrified of dogs and I was always afraid my parents might decide to get a dog. But my parents aren't dog people either so luckily we always had cats.

I'm not terrified of dogs any more, but I'm not really a dog person.


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CinderashAutomaton
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25 Nov 2021, 12:48 pm

Aspinator wrote:
Each person that has ASD is unique. I don't know who devised the "one size fits all mentality". It almost sounds like somebody who doesn't have ASD came up with this.


Most health conditions people are most often introduced to aren't anywhere near as complex as ASD. I mean, think about how much trouble some people have making distinctions between being sad and full blown depression.


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25 Nov 2021, 12:59 pm

CinderashAutomaton wrote:

When I was trying to learn about autism after I realized I was, at 30, it frustrated the hell out of me because so many of the behaviors and difficulties I saw described had very little to do with me, and offered me very little insight into my own condition. Portrayals of Aspergers in media just wasn't me, and I couldn't see myself in the more severe cases of autism I've seen IRL either. It took me a long time to realize the common roots and how they expressed themselves so differently in me. And I'm still learning about it all.


Diagnosed with autism level two at 56 years old a few weeks ago. You're singing my song... so frustrated at the lack of real help available to navigate this journey to discover how my autism impacts me. Suddenly I have this team around me asking me how they can help - and I've no idea. "Well, just tell me how your autism makes life difficult for you." All I can come up with is, "My autism makes it difficult to deal with inane questions like the one you just asked. Any chance you can help with that?"



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25 Nov 2021, 2:43 pm

Dandansson wrote:
dragonsanddemons wrote:
I haven’t heard anything before about being good at acting, except for “masking,” which I suppose would be like playing the role of an NT (which I seem to be entirely incapable of doing with any level of success). I seem to have a much better intuitive understanding of non-human body language than human, though I’m not really well-suited for most dogs, I’ve come to realize. I think that’s mostly due to temperament, for me. I was lucky to end up with one who’s more laid-back and stuff.

I somehow manage to be pretty “textbook” while not fitting most stereotypes like that, besides being generally good with animals and being an extreme introvert.

Masking? :?: What does that refer to?

https://www.aspergers101.com/acting-and-aspergers/


Masking is essentially pretending to be NT when around others, hiding distinctly non-NT traits and stuff. I can’t really explain it in more detail, I don’t know how to do it effectively, but it’s something I see mentioned a lot.

It seems to me like that article is saying that acting can be very beneficial for people with ASD, strengthening areas we tend to be weak in (such as improving interpretation of body language), not that we’d necessarily generally be well-suited to it, except those who have a particular interest in and passion for it. But as others have mentioned, autism is very diverse in how it affects each person. What helps one person could even be detrimental to someone else, and each person’s particular strengths, weaknesses, and areas of interest are unique, even in people with the same diagnosis. Generalizations are only generalizations, like saying NTs love football. Many do, but there are a good number who don’t, and there are non-NTs who do as well.


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Yet in my new wildness and freedom I almost welcome the bitterness of alienage. For although nepenthe has calmed me, I know always that I am an outsider; a stranger in this century and among those who are still men.
-H. P. Lovecraft, "The Outsider"

When you assume, it makes an a** out of u and me.


Dandansson
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29 Nov 2021, 10:43 am

dragonsanddemons wrote:
Dandansson wrote:
dragonsanddemons wrote:
I haven’t heard anything before about being good at acting, except for “masking,” which I suppose would be like playing the role of an NT (which I seem to be entirely incapable of doing with any level of success). I seem to have a much better intuitive understanding of non-human body language than human, though I’m not really well-suited for most dogs, I’ve come to realize. I think that’s mostly due to temperament, for me. I was lucky to end up with one who’s more laid-back and stuff.

I somehow manage to be pretty “textbook” while not fitting most stereotypes like that, besides being generally good with animals and being an extreme introvert.

Masking? :?: What does that refer to?

https://www.aspergers101.com/acting-and-aspergers/


Masking is essentially pretending to be NT when around others, hiding distinctly non-NT traits and stuff. I can’t really explain it in more detail, I don’t know how to do it effectively, but it’s something I see mentioned a lot.

It seems to me like that article is saying that acting can be very beneficial for people with ASD, strengthening areas we tend to be weak in (such as improving interpretation of body language), not that we’d necessarily generally be well-suited to it, except those who have a particular interest in and passion for it. But as others have mentioned, autism is very diverse in how it affects each person. What helps one person could even be detrimental to someone else, and each person’s particular strengths, weaknesses, and areas of interest are unique, even in people with the same diagnosis. Generalizations are only generalizations, like saying NTs love football. Many do, but there are a good number who don’t, and there are non-NTs who do as well.

acting NT? Do people who say that even know how diverse the NT group is?



dragonsanddemons
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29 Nov 2021, 12:19 pm

Dandansson wrote:
dragonsanddemons wrote:
Dandansson wrote:
dragonsanddemons wrote:
I haven’t heard anything before about being good at acting, except for “masking,” which I suppose would be like playing the role of an NT (which I seem to be entirely incapable of doing with any level of success). I seem to have a much better intuitive understanding of non-human body language than human, though I’m not really well-suited for most dogs, I’ve come to realize. I think that’s mostly due to temperament, for me. I was lucky to end up with one who’s more laid-back and stuff.

I somehow manage to be pretty “textbook” while not fitting most stereotypes like that, besides being generally good with animals and being an extreme introvert.

Masking? :?: What does that refer to?

https://www.aspergers101.com/acting-and-aspergers/


Masking is essentially pretending to be NT when around others, hiding distinctly non-NT traits and stuff. I can’t really explain it in more detail, I don’t know how to do it effectively, but it’s something I see mentioned a lot.

It seems to me like that article is saying that acting can be very beneficial for people with ASD, strengthening areas we tend to be weak in (such as improving interpretation of body language), not that we’d necessarily generally be well-suited to it, except those who have a particular interest in and passion for it. But as others have mentioned, autism is very diverse in how it affects each person. What helps one person could even be detrimental to someone else, and each person’s particular strengths, weaknesses, and areas of interest are unique, even in people with the same diagnosis. Generalizations are only generalizations, like saying NTs love football. Many do, but there are a good number who don’t, and there are non-NTs who do as well.

acting NT? Do people who say that even know how diverse the NT group is?


I think it’s mostly trying to not come across as distinctly non-NT. But it isn’t something I know a lot about or even a concept I fully understand, just something I see other people mention a lot.


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Yet in my new wildness and freedom I almost welcome the bitterness of alienage. For although nepenthe has calmed me, I know always that I am an outsider; a stranger in this century and among those who are still men.
-H. P. Lovecraft, "The Outsider"

When you assume, it makes an a** out of u and me.


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29 Nov 2021, 12:25 pm

I don't like dog owners. Not all of them but the ones who expect you to like their dogs, much the same as the kind of people who expect you to like their children. I don't care either way about their dogs but I really don't wanna hear about them and certainly don't wanna see photographs of them.

It gets me when people say that we're all supposed to like cats. I really don't care about cats either way either.