Board index › General Discussion › General Autism Discussion

Aspie ethnogenesis - the formation of the Aspie indentity

Page 1 of 4 [ 63 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

Magneto
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Jun 2009
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,086
Location: Blighty

28 May 2011, 8:42 am

Ethnogenesis

How far along is the process? It is a rather interesting concept, the idea of a group of people forming who's prime ethnic identity is Aspie; I'm sure there are plenty of people for whom this is the case. Say they unified, to help drive the process along... it would be interesting to see how many people would do this.



Acacia
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,986

28 May 2011, 8:56 am

I'm really not behind this idea at all.
I'd like to think that I have an identity that is separate from a pervasive developmental disorder.


_________________
Plantae/Magnoliophyta/Magnoliopsida/Fabales/Fabaceae/Mimosoideae/Acacia


wavefreak58
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,419
Location: Western New York

28 May 2011, 8:58 am

Asperger's is not an ethnic distinction, it is a neurological one.


_________________
When God made me He didn't use a mold. I'm FREEHAND baby!
The road to my hell is paved with your good intentions.


Magneto
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Jun 2009
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,086
Location: Blighty

28 May 2011, 10:06 am

Nothing is an ethnic distinction; there's no genetic difference between ethnicities...

I'm not saying it's an ethnic distinction, I'm saying it could become one.



wavefreak58
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,419
Location: Western New York

28 May 2011, 10:30 am

Magneto wrote:
Nothing is an ethnic distinction; there's no genetic difference between ethnicities...

I'm not saying it's an ethnic distinction, I'm saying it could become one.


My skin is white because my genetics are different than an African.

An Asperger's ethnic category makes no sense. It is a neurological variant that can range from mildly annoying to severely disabling. What culture do you propose to organize around this fact that would allow the emergence of an ethnic identity?

Don't forget, the vast majority of Aspies are not super geniuses. For every highly successful Aspie, there are even more that struggle. I wish people would quit taking the best of those on the spectrum as archetypes and then assuming that all can attain that level. It is unrealistic, and wholly unfair to those that struggle to simply organize their day.

People like Temple Grandin and John Elder Robinson are great examples for us all. But they are outliers. Assuming we can all perform to those standards is wishful thinking.


_________________
When God made me He didn't use a mold. I'm FREEHAND baby!
The road to my hell is paved with your good intentions.


scribbler16
Butterfly
Butterfly

User avatar

Joined: 18 Apr 2011
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 11

28 May 2011, 10:46 am

wavefreak58 wrote:
Magneto wrote:
Nothing is an ethnic distinction; there's no genetic difference between ethnicities...

I'm not saying it's an ethnic distinction, I'm saying it could become one.


My skin is white because my genetics are different than an African.

An Asperger's ethnic category makes no sense. It is a neurological variant that can range from mildly annoying to severely disabling. What culture do you propose to organize around this fact that would allow the emergence of an ethnic identity?



Race doesn't neccessarily have anything to do with ethnicity. An ethnic group is a subset of people who share cultural, religious, philosophical, occupational, or other common traits/experiences that they use collectively as a basis for their identities. A Big Mac competitve eating club could be an ethnic group; so could a nationality- or race-based group; and so could an autism community. It's my opinion that there are already many autism-related ethnic groups, and one of them is called Wrongplanet.



wavefreak58
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,419
Location: Western New York

28 May 2011, 11:50 am

scribbler16 wrote:

Race doesn't neccessarily have anything to do with ethnicity.


I was not the one that brought genetics into the conversation. I only provided a counter example.

Quote:
It's my opinion that there are already many autism-related ethnic groups, and one of them is called Wrongplanet.


You are entitled to your opinion. But I consider this opinion an example of conflating a loosely knit, diverse, and sometime quite fractured (Autism Speaks - two words to start a fight) group of people whose only commonality is a list of symptoms into something with far more depth and definition than is even remotely reasonable.


_________________
When God made me He didn't use a mold. I'm FREEHAND baby!
The road to my hell is paved with your good intentions.


Verdandi
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Age: 55
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,275
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)

28 May 2011, 1:07 pm

wavefreak58 wrote:
Magneto wrote:
Nothing is an ethnic distinction; there's no genetic difference between ethnicities...

I'm not saying it's an ethnic distinction, I'm saying it could become one.


My skin is white because my genetics are different than an African.


About .5% different.

Quote:
People like Temple Grandin and John Elder Robinson are great examples for us all. But they are outliers. Assuming we can all perform to those standards is wishful thinking.


While I do agree that being autistic will never be an ethnic identity because that makes no sense, people on all parts of the spectrum are already using it as an identity. Of course, this works best when those involved don't try to idealize a particular functioning level and use supposedly or actually autistic high achievers to try to define the entire spectrum.



CockneyRebel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 118,420
Location: In my little Olympic World of peace and love

28 May 2011, 1:15 pm

I want to be known for my personality, not my disability.


_________________
The Family Enigma


wavefreak58
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,419
Location: Western New York

28 May 2011, 1:55 pm

Verdandi wrote:

While I do agree that being autistic will never be an ethnic identity because that makes no sense, people on all parts of the spectrum are already using it as an identity. Of course, this works best when those involved don't try to idealize a particular functioning level and use supposedly or actually autistic high achievers to try to define the entire spectrum.


I have no problem with autism as an identity, only when it is elevated into things like the next step in evolution or in this case an ethnic group. My identity must include autism. But it is only part of what defines me.


_________________
When God made me He didn't use a mold. I'm FREEHAND baby!
The road to my hell is paved with your good intentions.


Verdandi
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Age: 55
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,275
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)

28 May 2011, 2:46 pm

wavefreak58 wrote:
Verdandi wrote:

While I do agree that being autistic will never be an ethnic identity because that makes no sense, people on all parts of the spectrum are already using it as an identity. Of course, this works best when those involved don't try to idealize a particular functioning level and use supposedly or actually autistic high achievers to try to define the entire spectrum.


I have no problem with autism as an identity, only when it is elevated into things like the next step in evolution or in this case an ethnic group. My identity must include autism. But it is only part of what defines me.


I do agree with this.

I was mostly agreeing with you, with a lot of added detail.



Magneto
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Jun 2009
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,086
Location: Blighty

28 May 2011, 4:54 pm

Quote:
While I do agree that being autistic will never be an ethnic identity because that makes no sense,

Ethnic identities make little sense... never underestimate the human kind.

Attempts are already underway to produce an "autistic culture". I must remind everyone, a separate culture is usually the first step on the path to ethnogenesis, if the latter occurs. Hey, the Amish and Irish Travellers are ethnic groups...

Here's Wiki's take on what an Ethnic group is.

Okay, so there's no interest in a homeland - well, at least no specific homeland. There is, however, an project to produce a language (it will likely come to naught, but you don't need a separate language actually). To be fair, they need to revise their definition - Irish Travellers don't have an interest in a homeland, lack a language, and share a religion with others (Roman Catholicism).

I won't be surprised if, in a few years, there's a separate ethnic group calling themselves Aspies (expect AFF to be a major player :wink: ). However, I didn't come on here to discuss aiding in it's genesis, at least that wasn't my primary point. It was more to discuss it happening...



wavefreak58
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,419
Location: Western New York

28 May 2011, 5:33 pm

Magneto wrote:
Quote:
While I do agree that being autistic will never be an ethnic identity because that makes no sense,

Ethnic identities make little sense... never underestimate the human kind.

Attempts are already underway to produce an "autistic culture". I must remind everyone, a separate culture is usually the first step on the path to ethnogenesis, if the latter occurs. Hey, the Amish and Irish Travellers are ethnic groups...

Here's Wiki's take on what an Ethnic group is.

Okay, so there's no interest in a homeland - well, at least no specific homeland. There is, however, an project to produce a language (it will likely come to naught, but you don't need a separate language actually). To be fair, they need to revise their definition - Irish Travellers don't have an interest in a homeland, lack a language, and share a religion with others (Roman Catholicism).

I won't be surprised if, in a few years, there's a separate ethnic group calling themselves Aspies (expect AFF to be a major player :wink: ). However, I didn't come on here to discuss aiding in it's genesis, at least that wasn't my primary point. It was more to discuss it happening...


I don't agree one bit that it is happening.

You basically have a minority of those on the spectrum promoting a narrow ideology, setting up an us VS them dynamic, and getting quite hostile if you don't jump on the bandwagon. Elevating this to ethnogenesis is just an egregious form of confirmation bias.

The irony here is that it feels so clique-ish. The very thing that caused so much pain to many of us in school is now being tried among us. There is an 'inside' group and an outside group. Who remembers being on the outside and how much pain it caused? Why would we do that amongst those on the spectrum?

I'll have none of that, thank you very much.


_________________
When God made me He didn't use a mold. I'm FREEHAND baby!
The road to my hell is paved with your good intentions.


Magneto
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Jun 2009
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,086
Location: Blighty

28 May 2011, 5:40 pm

You may have none of that, but your opinion doesn't matter in the end.

If ethnogenesis is happening, it's happening, whether you want it to or not. Not every Jew's a Zionist, but it didn't prevent the establishment of Israel....



Phonic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Apr 2011
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,329
Location: The graveyard of discarded toy soldiers.

28 May 2011, 5:53 pm

Magneto wrote:

Okay, so there's no interest in a homeland - well, at least no specific homeland. There is, however, an project to produce a language (it will likely come to naught, but you don't need a separate language actually). To be fair, they need to revise their definition - Irish Travellers don't have an interest in a homeland, lack a language, and share a religion with others (Roman Catholicism).


Irish travellers have there own language and they make there homelank in ireland.

I expect as the disability rights movement becomes stronger and knowledge/diagnoses of autism is increased there will eventually be sifficient numbers to say autism is a culture in itself, with it's own language style, social ideas and rules.


_________________
'not only has he hacked his intellect away from his feelings, but he has smashed his feelings and his capacity for judgment into smithereens'.


Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,157
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

28 May 2011, 6:09 pm

Magneto wrote:
Ethnogenesis

How far along is the process? It is a rather interesting concept, the idea of a group of people forming who's prime ethnic identity is Aspie; I'm sure there are plenty of people for whom this is the case. Say they unified, to help drive the process along... it would be interesting to see how many people would do this.


Aspie is not a ethnic group...