Awareness of social status

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In another thread, Callista was talking about social rules for agression as they depend on social status, and said:

That gave me an interesting realization: I think I have little sense of social status among peers. I have concepts of authority figure/subordinate (e.g., professor/student), and of differing status among clearly different categories (adult/child, grad student/undergrad student, etc.), but I have very little concept of social status among peers that don't fall into such obvious categories, and very little awareness or concept of pecking orders. I know that such things exist, because I've heard them talked about before, but I don't really recognize them in my experience even looking back on it, except for a few obvious cases (such as when someone is clearly an outcast and actively rejected by peers as a whole.)

I suspect this is common among autistic people. How aware are you of social status ranking among peers? (I mean people who are peers with each other; this could include people who are peers with you, but it could also include looking at groups of people who are peers with each other but not with you, and recognizing social ranking.)

I had been wondering if maybe I'm not really autistic, maybe I'm just weird in other ways with a few autistic traits. This observation that there's a major social phenomenon that I'm largely oblivious to makes me more inclined to think that I actually am autistic.

I'm going to try to make a poll. I hope it works

I saw these differences, but perhaps only because I payed close attention and I was facinated by the primitive and damaging hierarchies people form

I have always been aware of this, but this is one of the few times I hear such a good theoretical definition of it. Im constantly confronted with it but I dont honestly participate because I think its ridiculous. I have sometimes had fun treating people with definite social rankings in a way they are not used to. Ignoring the people that you normally are happy to have the "honor" to be spoken to of, (by speaking in the middle of their sentences/turning around searching for something etc.) and giving a lot of respect to a person that obviously thinks of him/herself as a looser. Yes I confuse people and I get into trouble, but not for long, because Im very good at getting away with it. Actually people can get so irritated that Im constantly challenged, where I play the "Im just dealing with my own stuff" game, which nobody gets through. Also bullies fall on their faces, because you dont bully in my age, then you fall in rank. So Im aware of it, but its like dealing with a bunch of simple animals. The people I meet which are not so caught up I take more seriously.
I make outsiders a better life, so in that part of the game Im actually productive. Which social rank I have depends on my mood/the education of the people and a lot of other stuff, but mostly people are insecure about me, because I like it better that way. As soon as Im judged positive or negative I have to deal with it, and then I miss the more important things in life. If you think I sound smug I can add that I also sometimes fail at my own game.

I picked other.

I would say I am:

"I rarely or never perceive such differences, though I'm sometimes aware that they exist."

I had no idea they existed as a child/teenager but gradually came to realize they did as I entered my mid-twenties and started trying to take them into account when dealing with others. I found that not doing so was severely ruining my interactions with others (e.g. answering back my boss and not understanding why he was arranging with HIS boss to put me under review to consider firing me).

As a child I was always dared to say/do things to teachers, authority figures, police, etc. and always did to the amusement of others. I was considered to be very funny and brave for doing it but I really couldn't understand why others were so afraid.

I also find NTs greatly value associating with supposedly high status / senior people and being 'noticed' by them. Again never been something I thought about.

Status relations between you and your boss or other authority figures are not quite what I'm talking about. I'm talking about things like differences in status between you and your coworkers or classmates. I think it's easier to learn about status differences when there's an official role difference and a clear authority relationship, and harder where officially the people involved are on the same level, but nevertheless there is a social hierarchy. (I generally understand the former but not the latter.)

Reading Maje's response made me realize that I sometimes did the same thing when I was in school.

I refused to act like the "popular" people were doing me a favor when they spoke to me; I often couldn't be bothered to take interest in what they were up to. I was much happier talking to the "outcasts", because they respected me, I respected them, and we were nice to each other.

So I guess this means that I was aware of social status differences, although the way I acted probably made it seem like I was not aware of them. It is also possible that I did not completely understand all of the intricacies of the status system, because I didn't really participate in the typical way.

I see. Then yes I used to be able to tell the difference between the guys who kept to themselves and spent their lunchtimes playing warhammer and those who were playing football and flirting with girls. I basically transcended them, and was equally rude to the popular people and the unpopular ones, and equally friendly also. In other words I could see the differences but didn't consider myself part of the social milieux (at the time I sincerely believed other people didn't exist and it was all some kind of computer game). Mostly I spent my break/lunch times in detention for misbehaving anyway.

I don't really understand...

I didn't get the idea of high school cliques until I watched Buffy, and I am sure what I got from Buffy was not realistic at all. While I was in high school I was pretty much aware of peers as:

* Had been cruel to me
* Had not been cruel to me
* Had not interacted with me

The idea of popularity and cliques didn't really cross my mind.

I usually don't notice or pay attention to peer social status. I do notice that some people treat me better or worse for what seems to me to be arbitrary reasons.

I act that way too because its irritating that people assume I give them a status on the basis of how they look/how much money they have/how other people treat them/their profession/how their voice sound when they talk etc. These things are just not good enough for me to judge somebody on. When I ignore their status Im often regarded as stupid, but they can also be insecure if I understand what Im doing or not, and so they dont know if I have a status like a super star because I allow myself to do anything. Therefore people mostly have some respect in fear of getting into a difficult situation. The people who judge me stupid learn afterwards Some people get adicted to me and I have a hard time getting peace from them, trying to impress me. Some people hate me. Its often jalousie, but also they can be offended that I dont give them "proper" respect. I have to add: Some people are cool!



Thats what I guess too. Maybe I dont feel the emotional finesses (fear/happiness) that make people value the social status that much. This is just an assumption though, because I have fear in situations that are important to me. I even have social anxiety if the situation and the people are important for my life. Also I know very well and am very affected by the difference having a low or a high social status. Im just not interested in the game because in the long run its ridiculous.

Last edited by Maje on 11 Jul 2011, 6:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

Topics like this are why I like WP so much. There is always something (or a perspective on something) I hadn't considered before and it gets me thinking.

I get to be middle-aged before I seriously ponder this issue or even be really aware of it. How much else has have I missed as I drift along day to day?

That sums it up really.

I suppose at the back of my mind I must have always known some people were popular and others not, but it never crossed my mind why they were, or how or even why it should be matter to me.

Mostly my mind was turned toward avoiding those who were cruel to me.

Neither do I... ranks in personal relations?

I have an instinctual appreciation of influencing key acquaintances for my benefit. However, I do not actively seek out such meetings, or ever appear sycophantic or hungry or jostling for position. Rather a relaxed, undemanding acknowledgement of heirachy occurs with no fawning.

I'm born in the year of the hare. Some people call it lucky, but its simply just forward planning, detached coolness and caution.

Like a cat knows who to trust by watching

Yay, I made a good topic!

I'm just now, in middle age, starting to have some grasp of how these social hierarchies work. It has been very frustrating because rewards are meted out for reasons that have no bearing on logic or reason. Thus a person with higher standing will have their thoughts and ideas automatically given more weight, even if the underlying veracity of the ideas are of lesser quality than a subordinate's. A person of higher standing will even appropriate the ideas of a subordinate as their own, giving credit to the subordinate at the whim of their perceived self interests.

The real challenge for me is not my intellectual understanding of this dynamic, but being able to recognize it in practice, during day to day interactions with people. These hierarchies show up everywhere - work, church, school, social services organizations, government - any place where groups of people interact in some common endeavor. And I really suck at figuring them out in real time.