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Seventh
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14 May 2012, 2:26 am

Society's command to "Be Yourself" seems hypocritical to me as an aspie, because often we are punished "being ourselves".

Should we relax and be our aspie selves anyway, or "act NT" as best we can? Does it cause us deep psychological trauma to "act NT"?

I know it is draining and often it feels like a traumatic experience to "act NT". I force myself to socialize and say yes to social invitations. I can make small talk, though it is a task rather than a pleasant thing for me. I spend a lot of energy to make sure I say the right things and not the wrong things. Is this traumatic? Is it healthy?

Is it analogous to the left-handed person being forced to write with her right hand, by having her left hand tied behind her back?

I don't think I will stop acting NT because sometimes I actually enjoy the challenge and the pretense - I treat it as a game - and the social approval. Also, I want to be able to act NT for career reasons. Of course, I stumble and I am always striving to improve upon my NT act. But what kind of psychic damage am I doing to myself in the process? And are the rewards worth it?

One consequence of "acting NT" a lot is that I feel alienated from myself. On some days I also feel resentful towards society in general for "making" me do it. I also feel as though some of my interpersonal relationships are not "real" because they are based on the success of my "NT act".

I've also been forcing myself into an NT mold for so long that I'm no longer sure which parts of my personality are real and which parts were deliberately constructed. It's like large chunks of my personality are a pastiche of people I've known, admired and mimicked throughout my youth. I even have a body language habit I can trace directly to a person I knew many years ago.

If anyone would like to share their thoughts on this it would be very much appreciated.



vanhalenkurtz
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14 May 2012, 2:53 am

Seventh wrote:
Society's command to "Be Yourself" seems hypocritical to me as an aspie, because often we are punished "being ourselves".


I understand that.

Now that I'm in my fifties, it's easy to say it's a matter of context, where you are operating. When I was in the navy, I was in the very deep end. As a mental health counselor, "working with" bipolar people, I had unintentional assets. I raised children, that was a breeze. Until my wife wondered why I "never grew up" anyway. Now I'm on a hippie commune, they don't understand me but they don't beat me up. I like my work. I get my protein online. Being 20 again, no thanks, someone else can have a go at it. "Fitting in" is painful when it's not possible. Find the place where there's the least friction is the best I can offer after half a century of "all this."


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johnsmcjohn
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14 May 2012, 4:49 am

I have been forced to act as an NT my whole life. I hate it, but I understand that this is the price I must pay for the privilege of living by myself. This is why the time I spend at home, by myself is so important to me. Also, this is why I enjoy coming to WP. It's wonderful to have people who can relate to how you feel.



AS_Citizen_43275-B
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14 May 2012, 4:51 am

I completely relate to everything you wrote.

Being myself usually results in self-loathing after I encounter askance, rejection, and derision from NTs. However, pretending to be NT quickly grows wearisome, like constantly holding one's breath; moreover, sincerity is a top virtue with me and I abhor pretending to be something I am not. So I usually resort in being aloof and taciturn ("standoffish" to NTs) as a compromise. I'll smile and engage in small talk when necessary.

Quote:
Should we relax and be our aspie selves anyway, or "act NT" as best we can? Does it cause us deep psychological trauma to "act NT"?


Only masochistic, or ultra thick-skinned aspies can afford to be themselves. I imagine most aspies can't keep the ruse for very long or else they risk a breakdown. That's how I feel at least.

Quote:
I know it is draining and often it feels like a traumatic experience to "act NT". I force myself to socialize and say yes to social invitations. I can make small talk, though it is a task rather than a pleasant thing for me. I spend a lot of energy to make sure I say the right things and not the wrong things.

I second that!...

Quote:
Is this traumatic? Is it healthy?

I imagine it depends on each individual aspie; as we all have varying ability to handle stresses and social pressures.

Quote:
And are the rewards worth it?
If you can handle it, yeah, it's worth it. Our society esteems extroversion, articulation, and social grace (aka social deception), rather than, ability, wisdom, and integrity. I am convinced you can go farther (i.e. career-wise) by pretending to be an NT compared to being your actual self.

Quote:
One consequence of "acting NT" a lot is that I feel alienated from myself. On some days I also feel resentful towards society in general for "making" me do it. I also feel as though some of my interpersonal relationships are not "real" because they are based on the success of my "NT act".


I totally relate and concur. Albeit I can act NT and win the attention of a girl, I've chosen not to pursue romantic relationships, because their affection will be based on my ruse and not on me being myself; so I don't bother.



AnotherKind
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14 May 2012, 4:59 am

Most people are very hypocrite. Sorry to say that. I wonder if people with Asperger's/autism, are in fact, just honest people.
And for me hypocrite = psychopathic. I think society is full of psychopaths.


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Last edited by AnotherKind on 14 May 2012, 5:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

Seventh
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14 May 2012, 5:02 am

Thanks vanhalenkurtz! When I'm ready to retire yes I will seek the place with least friction, but as a 33 year old I really need to be career-focused. I just wonder how to find the right balance between being myself and "acting NT" which will help me in the long term.

Btw, don't aspies find hippies annnoyingly touchy-feely? :lol:



vanhalenkurtz wrote:
Now that I'm in my fifties, it's easy to say it's a matter of context, where you are operating. When I was in the navy, I was in the very deep end. As a mental health counselor, "working with" bipolar people, I had unintentional assets. I raised children, that was a breeze. Until my wife wondered why I "never grew up" anyway. Now I'm on a hippie commune, they don't understand me but they don't beat me up. I like my work. I get my protein online. Being 20 again, no thanks, someone else can have a go at it. "Fitting in" is painful when it's not possible. Find the place where there's the least friction is the best I can offer after half a century of "all this."



One-Percent
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14 May 2012, 5:06 am

This is something thats been on my mind for a while. The way I see it is I have to kill myself or be ostracised... your welcome self esteem.



Seventh
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14 May 2012, 5:16 am

Hi johnsmcjohn, yes I can relate to the importance of at-home time. I sometimes don't allow myself enough of it, always pressuring myself to try and be more social. I think I'm afraid of becoming a lonely old crazy cat lady in future. I love my alone time but I don't want to become a sad old loner :?


johnsmcjohn wrote:
I have been forced to act as an NT my whole life. I hate it, but I understand that this is the price I must pay for the privilege of living by myself. This is why the time I spend at home, by myself is so important to me. Also, this is why I enjoy coming to WP. It's wonderful to have people who can relate to how you feel.



AnotherKind
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14 May 2012, 5:18 am

:(


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SilkySifaka
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14 May 2012, 5:30 am

Seventh wrote:

Is it analogous to the left-handed person being forced to write with her right hand, by having her left hand tied behind her back?


I think that is great analogy. For me I can act NT but it feels forced and awkward, exactly like writing with the wrong hand.

Quote:
I don't think I will stop acting NT because sometimes I actually enjoy the challenge and the pretense - I treat it as a game - and the social approval. Also, I want to be able to act NT for career reasons. Of course, I stumble and I am always striving to improve upon my NT act. But what kind of psychic damage am I doing to myself in the process? And are the rewards worth it?


I do a similar thing, sometimes I like to feel that I have 'passed', but I'm quite conflicted about feeling that way. I think only you can decide if the rewards are worth it. If acting NT will allow you to get to a place in your career that will make you happy then maybe it will have been worth it for you.

Quote:
I've also been forcing myself into an NT mold for so long that I'm no longer sure which parts of my personality are real and which parts were deliberately constructed. It's like large chunks of my personality are a pastiche of people I've known, admired and mimicked throughout my youth. I even have a body language habit I can trace directly to a person I knew many years ago.
.


I could have written this, it is exactly how I feel. I feel like my personality is a character I have constructed, rather than a real person. Sometimes I feel as if I am in a witness protection scheme - where I can never tell anyone who I really am to the point where I start to forget who I am, or was.

Perhaps the solution (if there is one) is to find places and situations where you can practice being yourself, like at home or on WP. I am trying to draw a line between myself and my 'public persona' so I don't get confused about who I am versus who I pretend to be. That doesn't mean I won't still try to act NT, it's just that I will recognise it for what it is - acting a character.



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14 May 2012, 5:35 am

AnotherKind wrote:
Most people are very hypocrite. Sorry to say that. I wonder if people with Asperger's/autism, are in fact, just honest people.
And for me hypocrite = psychopathic. I think society is full of psychopaths.


I believe this is true. I remember a large number of different people from my past that I suspect are mild/moderate sociopaths(ASPD) for various reasons.



Seventh
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14 May 2012, 5:43 am

Hi AS_Citizen_43275-B, thanks for your thoughtful response. It's always a relief to read others saying they can relate. Throughout my 20s I pretty much refused to conform - couldn't think of a rational reason why I should - and after finally escaping high school I didn't have to conform because I was at uni and not having to completely support myself financially. I sought out other weirdos, loners and anyone who could tolerate me (and whom I could tolerate). As I got older I felt increasing pressure to conform and get along with "normal" people, for career reasons. Tiresome though it is, if I treat it as an interesting challenge in itself it's not too bad (except when I fail and feel like an idiot!) Learning to laugh at myself has been really important. NTs are much more forgiving if you show them that you can laugh at yourself. Thankfully I'm working with a relatively tolerant bunch of NTs at the moment (no office politics! Yay!) unlike in the past. But having said that at uni I didn't "conform", I nonetheless did a lot of mimicking and adopted all kinds of ideas and ideologies which I thought were interesting or cool, some of which I have selectively retained.




AS_Citizen_43275-B wrote:
I completely relate to everything you wrote.

Being myself usually results in self-loathing after I encounter askance, rejection, and derision from NTs. However, pretending to be NT quickly grows wearisome, like constantly holding one's breath; moreover, sincerity is a top virtue with me and I abhor pretending to be something I am not. So I usually resort in being aloof and taciturn ("standoffish" to NTs) as a compromise. I'll smile and engage in small talk when necessary.

Quote:
Should we relax and be our aspie selves anyway, or "act NT" as best we can? Does it cause us deep psychological trauma to "act NT"?


Only masochistic, or ultra thick-skinned aspies can afford to be themselves. I imagine most aspies can't keep the ruse for very long or else they risk a breakdown. That's how I feel at least.

Quote:
I know it is draining and often it feels like a traumatic experience to "act NT". I force myself to socialize and say yes to social invitations. I can make small talk, though it is a task rather than a pleasant thing for me. I spend a lot of energy to make sure I say the right things and not the wrong things.

I second that!...

Quote:
Is this traumatic? Is it healthy?

I imagine it depends on each individual aspie; as we all have varying ability to handle stresses and social pressures.

Quote:
And are the rewards worth it?
If you can handle it, yeah, it's worth it. Our society esteems extroversion, articulation, and social grace (aka social deception), rather than, ability, wisdom, and integrity. I am convinced you can go farther (i.e. career-wise) by pretending to be an NT compared to being your actual self.

Quote:
One consequence of "acting NT" a lot is that I feel alienated from myself. On some days I also feel resentful towards society in general for "making" me do it. I also feel as though some of my interpersonal relationships are not "real" because they are based on the success of my "NT act".


I totally relate and concur. Albeit I can act NT and win the attention of a girl, I've chosen not to pursue romantic relationships, because their affection will be based on my ruse and not on me being myself; so I don't bother.



Seventh
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14 May 2012, 5:52 am

Hi AnotherKind, yes long before I heard about Aspergers I viewed mainstream society as being full of dishonesty and hypocrisy. I befriended people who were AS or who had AS traits because I viewed them as honest people. Even if they said blunt things that hurt my feelings, I remained loyal to them because I truly valued their fundamental honesty, which I felt reflected my way of thinking. I stand by my AS best friend, despite often having my feelings hurt by him (and I have probably hurt him in the past too). I believe he's fundamentally a good person, just one with AS. I love and value his honest, child-like view of the world and we can relate to each other on that level.



AnotherKind wrote:
Most people are very hypocrite. Sorry to say that. I wonder if people with Asperger's/autism, are in fact, just honest people.
And for me hypocrite = psychopathic. I think society is full of psychopaths.



AnotherKind
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14 May 2012, 6:01 am

You should see 'The Bothersome Man' movie. It reflects exactly the way society is
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0808185/

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In a strange city where every person seems content beyond reason a new man arrives in town and stirs up trouble by asking too many questions.


Sorry for offtopic :?


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AS: 165, NT: 44


Seventh
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14 May 2012, 7:28 am

Thanks AnotherKind, it's good to hear about interesting films I haven't heard of before.

Have you watched the films by Lars Von Trier e.g. 'Breaking the Waves', 'The Idiots', 'Dancer in the Dark', 'Dogville'?

There was something about the (highly disturbed) women in these films that I could identify with, and this realization bothered me greatly. I watched these films many years ago, before I'd heard about AS, and remember thinking, "oh s**t, I'm a bit like that" (though nowhere near as extreme as those women). I'd have to watch the films again to decide if these women had some kind of spectrum disorder. I'm pretty sure the woman in The Idiots does.


AnotherKind wrote:
You should see 'The Bothersome Man' movie. It reflects exactly the way society is
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0808185/

Quote:
In a strange city where every person seems content beyond reason a new man arrives in town and stirs up trouble by asking too many questions.


Sorry for offtopic :?



Innerpeace
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14 May 2012, 7:37 am

I took alot from reading this thread. Personally I find 'acting NT' is absolutely draining and exhausting. For me it is like choosing to act a part in a play that I really have no desire to do. Basically it is a drag.
I am involved in some political movements/campaigns in the UK and I find the people in these movements tend to have more integrity, honesty and depth than lots of other people I meet. I also find they tend to be far less judgemental and accepting (not all though). There are still times when I assoicate with these people that I feel the pressure to 'mask up' and be someone I am not but for the most part I do not. When I was interacting with people in non-political, purely social circles, there was a greater pressure to behave in an NT way. I am sure there are lots of Aspies in political movements.