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Callista
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19 Nov 2006, 7:15 am

Background, for those who don't know it: I'm a 23 year old female with diagnosed Asperger Syndrome and depression (in remission, 6 months). I strongly suspect ADD.

I would like a list of any resources any of you know, which have to deal with ADHD in general, and especially in adults. I am non-hyperactive (except for my mental processes, which are usually fast).

For any of you who are interested, the following quote box contains the reasons I think I might have ADD.

Quote:
Just today, my housemate told me that I'm constantly late to various things--being picked up and taken places, being places I'm supposed to be at, whatever. I'd known I had a tardiness problem with school, work, church, and appointments; but I was grateful she told me this, because until now I hadn't known how very wide-ranging the problem was.

I'm also very easily distracted, mostly by my own thoughts, but also by any environmental stimuli, like an air conditioner or a coughing classmate. If I'm distracted by my own thoughts, it's generally "daydreaming"--going from concept to concept, making connections from one to another. Within seconds, I can be totally off topic. If it's something around me, I'm usually annoyed because I'm trying to pay attention but can't.

I have to multitask to get anything done. Right now I'm listening to music as well as typing here. I'd lose track or feel bored if I didn't do more than one thing at a time. I'm usually keeping more than one train of thought in mind, too.

I have a very, very low tolerance for boredom. I can't tolerate my job, cleaning a church, if I'm not listening to books on tape at the same time. Enough boredom, and I'll have a very Aspie-style meltdown. Thankfully I don't have tantrums anymore; but the usual "cry, run off and find a corner to curl up in and hide" thing happens often enough.

I also crave intense stimulation. In my case, this isn't thrill-seeking--it's intellectual stimulation. I always have to be thinking about something interesting. TV is too slow for me; there isn't enough to think about. Sitcoms are horribly boring to me; so are most movies. The TV news, informational programs, action/adventure, and some cartoons are OK--but only if I have something else to do at the same time, usually crochet or chores. When I read, the book has to keep my attention constantly, or else I find myself three pages further than I was the last time I paid attention to the book--but, thankfully, books are more information packed than TV, and can keep my interest much more easily.

I have trouble with planning. A complex task overwhelms me unless I have a concrete set of steps to follow.

I'm a perfectionist because I don't know how to balance between speed and accuracy when I do something--so I do it as accurately as is possible, and sacrifice speed. Just yesterday I spent five and a half hours scrubbing a room at a cat shelter--it was spotless when I was done; but I spent three hours longer than anyone else would have spent.

Bills are often unpaid, despite my having the money in the savings account.

I constantly miss appointments, work, and meetings with friends because I've lost track of time.

I know how to plan my decisions, but I am impulsive: I often don't plan decisions unless I slow down and determine to plan them. Usually, impulsive decisions are something like not going to work that day because I have a headache.

My room is either perfectly organized or a cluttered mess. I can't work if my room is messy; so I've learned how to clean it by following a set series of steps--one piece of furniture at a time, then the floor, then trash, then laundry, then dishes. There are sub-steps to that, but they're boring so I won't list them.

At school, I was a good student. Having a high IQ allowed me to pass classes without studying or even paying much attention. My love of reading allowed me to gain almost everything I needed to know from the textbooks, which I generally read within the first month or so of school.

Caffeine, a stimulant (just like Ritalin is), allows me to become more productive and to concentrate better.


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krex
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19 Nov 2006, 8:37 am

I could have written most of that myself....except I dont have the perseverance to keep my "space" clean...."I will get to it tomorrow",for a bought a year then clean like a possesed person one day before someone comes to my house to visit.I truely hate clutter and half the reason I am late places is ....I dont really want to go and I cant find my shoes or keys or whatever.

I thought most of what you were describing was AS related.If you find out you have ADD,let me know what they recommend.I read somewhere that stimulant medication wasn't as effective on adults....?


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Scintillate
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19 Nov 2006, 9:04 am

I was suspected of ADD by 3 different doctors.

Funny thing is I've never been inattentive, or hyperactive.

My thoughts always feel like they're racing however, I don't know if this is a symptom or not I can't quite find anything like it in the literature.

However, a doctor told me they did a blood test for ADHD, and it was determined negative, isn't this ridiculous? Why would a doctor lie to me? There is no blood test to determine ADD is there?

Anyway, I assumed my focus was the infamous "hyperfocus" yet realised after a while that its only on certain topics, which would be better known as obsession.

A problem I have is I can't seem to keep myself, or things around me clean, I feel like a dirty animal, and when I try to clean its never good enough, my parents assure me I haven't finished, or I've cleaned half-assed, but in my eyes I've tried my very best, it seems what is clean to me is simply messy to most.

Anyway, I'm starting to suspect for myself, I'm simply an aspie who's been holding himself inside so long, that my anger bursts, and impulsive explosions, rather than a result of ADD, are more likely a result of stress buildup and repression.

So a psych since than has agreed with me its not ADD, and also suspected aspergers.

We don't really have specialist psychologists in W.A (west australia) but I am going to one I've waited 3 months to see, she should be able to tell.

Just wanted to post some thoughts, excuse the rambling nature.


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tortoise
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19 Nov 2006, 11:50 am

A good source of internet info from Dr. Russell Barkley. - >http://www.schwablearning.org/articles.asp?r=54

While the whole 40 page pdf is interesting, the better stuff is from pg 18 on. He also has a section on inattentive ADHD possibly being a new a disorder, it is a titled subsection early in the PDF.


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wedrifid
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19 Nov 2006, 12:37 pm

Scintillate wrote:
I was suspected of ADD by 3 different doctors.

Funny thing is I've never been inattentive, or hyperactive.

My thoughts always feel like they're racing however, I don't know if this is a symptom or not I can't quite find anything like it in the literature.

However, a doctor told me they did a blood test for ADHD, and it was determined negative, isn't this ridiculous? Why would a doctor lie to me? There is no blood test to determine ADD is there?

Anyway, I assumed my focus was the infamous "hyperfocus" yet realised after a while that its only on certain topics, which would be better known as obsession.

A problem I have is I can't seem to keep myself, or things around me clean, I feel like a dirty animal, and when I try to clean its never good enough, my parents assure me I haven't finished, or I've cleaned half-assed, but in my eyes I've tried my very best, it seems what is clean to me is simply messy to most.

Anyway, I'm starting to suspect for myself, I'm simply an aspie who's been holding himself inside so long, that my anger bursts, and impulsive explosions, rather than a result of ADD, are more likely a result of stress buildup and repression.

So a psych since than has agreed with me its not ADD, and also suspected aspergers.

We don't really have specialist psychologists in W.A (west australia) but I am going to one I've waited 3 months to see, she should be able to tell.

Just wanted to post some thoughts, excuse the rambling nature.
*nod* Sounds like Aspergers to me. Note that the two overlap and many people have been diagnosed with ADD to later find that they have Aspergers instead. What you describe sounds pretty much like myself btw. :)



starling
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19 Nov 2006, 12:54 pm

www.addvance.com
add.about.com

I have been diagnosed with ADD and my daughter too.



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19 Nov 2006, 6:09 pm

Quote:
However, a doctor told me they did a blood test for ADHD, and it was determined negative, isn't this ridiculous? Why would a doctor lie to me? There is no blood test to determine ADD is there?

They'd do a blood test to rule out other things that could be causing your symptoms, but that does seems like BS.



Callista
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19 Nov 2006, 7:57 pm

I checked out some of your links; the CHADD site in particular has a lot of practical suggestions.

Okay, so:

Let's assume I have ADHD; because if I don't, then there's no reason to worry other than to make sure I get a handle on my Aspieness. Let's also assume, since I compensated through sheer love of learning all through my school years, that I am not completely overwhelmed by ADHD.

Here's my question now:

Can a person with ADHD get in control of their lives--stop the disorganization, the procrastination, the totally screwed-up time management--without a diagnosis (and thus without medication)?

Or would this be so hard that, without external motivation and tutoring, it would be impractical to attempt it? What I mean is: I'm not organized; I have trouble following through on plans or even starting in the first place; and I have bad motivation. Can I overcome that enough, temporarily, so that I can learn strategies to overcome it permanently?

I hate the idea of going to my psychiatrist yet again, and saying, "Okay, I know I was right about the Asperger thing, but now I think there's more going on." And I'd feel really embarrassed if it turned out I was just being a silly hypochondriac and I'm completely normal when it comes to my brain's attention-control circuits.

Quote:
However, a doctor told me they did a blood test for ADHD, and it was determined negative, isn't this ridiculous? Why would a doctor lie to me? There is no blood test to determine ADD is there?


What the doc told you is crap. Total crap.

There's no such thing as a blood test for ADHD. If there were, it would be all over the news.

If there wasn't some miscommunication--such as the blood test having found a physical problem that was causing the ADHD-like symptoms--then this is a case of a doctor assuming that all patients are totally ignorant of medicine, and will blindly trust what a doctor says just because he's wearing a white coat.

Well, I got news for him--we're Aspies, and we probably don't even notice the white coats, much less follow the social convention of awe and respect for anyone wearing them. Just passing medical school (which, granted, is hard) isn't enough if he doesn't prove himself to be a decent doctor, too.


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19 Nov 2006, 9:01 pm

Callista,,

It sounds like you CAN'T have ADHD! You get bored, want to study, and have a HIGH IQ! It sounds like AS to ME also! Were you hyperlexic before 3? If so, you fit nearly every single requirement for AS, and you ALREADY seem to fail some for ADHD! Is the doctor a foreigner or VERY STUPID? Maybe they tested you for AIDS or some such. ADHD is NOT a disease! It is a kind of syndrome. As such, it doesn't have one cause, so EVEN if there was a test(there ISN'T), it would only be able to say you might have it, and NOT that you don't! There is no one cause. ADHD could be caused by allergies, high blood sugar, hormone problems, etc.... So how could they give you a definitive NO, you don't have it. BTW allergies, high blood sugar, and hormone problems have been PROVEN to cause ADHD but only in SOME people. Even sensitive people can outgrow it.

Who really cares if you have AS, etc???? The fact is that the main symptoms are there. You should try to see what you can to work around them, and mitigate the bad ones.

Oh yeah, as for the depression, I really wonder if any people here keeping with American traditions will end this week depressed. I wouldn't be surprised if they DON'T!

Steve



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19 Nov 2006, 9:15 pm

BTW regarding the appointments, etc... you COULD try to get a PDA type cell phone. I USED to have a PDA, and plan to get one next week. I used to be VERY good with this sort of stuff, but am not anymore. Ironically, I used to always get everywhere absurdly early. I don't know HOW that started, as people are USUALLY very late. Anyway, lately I get sidetracked within 30 minutes of having to leave, and miss the appointment. NOPE, it isn't due to old age. I think it is a combination of dependence on M/S software, and just DUMB LUCK. Oh yeah, most appointments today are done ARBITRARILY on other peoples whims. They tend to be boring and unproductive.

Steve



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19 Nov 2006, 9:20 pm

Yeah I have self-dx inattentive ADHD. A simplistic explaination is a certain part
of the brain is underactive. This may be related to neurotransmitter receptor
differences. Though not usefull for dx an individual case of inattentive ADHD (ADHD-I)
an EEG pattern from certain parts of the brain in groups of ADHD-I suffers and controls
indicate much higher levels of theta waves in the ADHD-I group.

Delta: dream less sleep
Theta: daydreaming
Alpha: Relaxed non-thinking
Beta: Focus and alert.

Basically a person with ADHD-I lives in a daydream. A person who gets alot done lives
in a beta focused state.

Stimulants meds speed the brain up to a beta state. They have a host of side effects
and are some what difficult for an adult to obtain. I would love to hear about non-drug
treatments for ADHD-I(though I want be holding my breath).



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19 Nov 2006, 9:50 pm

Daydreaming doesn't necessarily mean you can't react to some stimulus! Also, is anyone TRULY always daydreaming? That DOES explain a lot though. I used to daydream like 20% of the time! I have noticed some smart people doing that, and apparantly a number of autistic people(LFA and AS, etc...) do it. I guess if that is an ADHD trait, some over zealous doctor may misdiagnose.

Steve



Callista
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19 Nov 2006, 10:06 pm

((Re. the doctor and his blood test--that wasn't my experience; it was Scintillate's story. I just used a manual quote tag and didn't put the name in there. Sorry for the confusion.))

I daydream a lot of the time--but with only part of my mind. Like I said, I need constant intellectual stimulation; so if something's not interesting enough, I only pay partial attention and daydream instead. That would be okay, except that way too often, the daydream ends up capturing all of my attention.

Oh, yeah, as for the "liking to learn" thing--that only worked until the end of high school. By the time I got to my junior year of college, I started failing classes because I wasn't organized and focused enough... last semester I was academically suspended. It doesn't matter if you like to learn, if you're off searching Wikipedia for information on medical ethics while you're supposed to be doing your optics homework--especially if, when said optics homework isn't stimulating enough, you can't focus on it for all the money (and good grades) in the world!

So yeah, if you like to learn, it's a good thing; but if you can't spend time learning something unless it's absolutely fascinating to you... then that's a bad thing.

ADHD does not have to mean bad grades in elementary or even high school--many people apparently compensate for it for quite a while before it starts to cause problems. For me, that point came halfway through college.

By the way, Steve--do you happen to have any info on what the EEG looks like during REM sleep, especially during a lucid dream? I've seen pictures of EEGs during REM, of course, but I don't know how to interpret them...


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Last edited by Callista on 19 Nov 2006, 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tortoise
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19 Nov 2006, 10:07 pm

Disorders can and often combined with other disorders. You could be have ADHD and then again you may not. ADHDers can "hyper"-focus also. Think video games, why can those darn kids play for hours? ADHDers can do anything that is stimulating and immediatly rewarding.

I'm curious to learn if there is that much of a difference between ADHDers and ASD in that regard. I've also wondered if ASD and ADHD share other excutive function difficulties. ADHDers are notorious for having great diffculty completing boring tasks through time. They may start such a project, but quickly move on to something else. If they do get on track again they will often get side tracked again and again. I've got a nice panel door in our living room that I started sanding 12 years ago. :)

By the way, hyperactivity is not a required trait to recieve a diagnosis, nor is an EEG used as a diagnositic tool. Do go in and see your Doc, especially if he is good. Many disorders are comorbid and a good Doc can sort that out.


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Last edited by tortoise on 19 Nov 2006, 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Callista
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19 Nov 2006, 10:09 pm

I wonder, then, if it's a matter of ADHD-like traits caused by Asperger Syndrome?...


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Scintillate
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19 Nov 2006, 10:28 pm

I was wondering something similar for myself callista.


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