Suicide as an alternative option for lifelong torment.

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celebrei
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07 Aug 2012, 10:09 pm

I don't understand why society frowns upon suicide when death is the inevitable end of life's journey, accelerating the inevitable by suicide leaves a bad taste in people's mouths mainly because of the Abrahamic religions which points out that suicide is sinful/immoral, but from a practical and materialistic perspective isn't suicide more feasible than life long pain and suffering? If you are a theist part. a Christian you would believe that suicide does not automatically grant eternal damnation to the "soul" of the sufferer because impaired thinking, pyschological problems and grave fear of hardship lessens the "sin" of the one who committed suicide, Protestanism generally regards it as sinful but does not damn the person to "hell" if the sinner fully accepts Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior before the taking one's life while Catholicism teaches that suicide victims can still be saved through prayers and salutary repentance offered by God. From a practical and materialist perspective, suicide is the end of all biological functions in a living organism, and therefore once the brain dies the mind dies as well meaning that one's consciousness does not survive biological death aka no afterlife, but annihilation doesn't sound to bad compared to lifelong misery since the cessation of all brain activity would render the dead person incapable of realizing his non-existence, as Mark Twain said I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” so either you are a theist, or an atheistic or agnostic death by suicide doesn't seem to be such a bad idea, even if God exists and assuming he is the same as the monotheistic god of religions he will still show mercy to the tormented soul who committed suicide, and if you are a non-believer and you believe death to be the absolute finality of everything then suicide offers eternal rest from all the misery of the world.



kate123A
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07 Aug 2012, 10:20 pm

ah but Christianity does offer death and life. Before you accept life you must accept death.

No I'm not preaching to you simply pointing out the tenants of my faith. When you accept Christianity you
must therefore die to yourself and allow God to indwell you through the holy ghost. So in theory and from what I understand you
are allowed to die to yourself at the moment of conversion. Thus your argument is void in some ways but not in others.



Kalinda
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07 Aug 2012, 10:53 pm

You have an interesting perspective. In my belief system, suicide is not moral or reasonable. I don't know how much suffering I would have endured had I not overcome the feelings that led to my attempting suicide in the past. It IS wrong, in more ways than one. We are humans, while not perfect we do indeed all share in the strife for overcoming odds. Perhaps you see suicide as a way out or this very thing, but I do not believe it is.



compiledkernel
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07 Aug 2012, 11:00 pm

The Taking of any life is a moral repugnant, in particular if its your own. And this is a tenet that exists outside of faith.

All life, inherently, has value and purpose. This stands regardless of its state in the world.


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07 Aug 2012, 11:05 pm

Suicide isn't immoral in all belief systems. You can always shop for a different religion if you want suicide to lose its negative connotations.



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07 Aug 2012, 11:37 pm

You can intellectualize it all you want while you're distant from contemplating doing it. I think about it pretty regularly, but what it really comes down to for me every time is that I enjoy most of my time. It's the world of people that screws me up pretty badly on a regular basis but I always get over it and keep trying because I love other things. It's whenever I think philosophical crepe about doing something important or having human relationships that meet requirements that make intellectual sense, etc. etc. that's when everything stops making real sense. So what from my perspective the OP doesn't even make any real sense.



Callista
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07 Aug 2012, 11:51 pm

Death by suicide is a horrible idea.

If you're dead, you can't...
...pet a cat
...drink iced tea on a hot day
...kick butt at video games
...solve an algebra problem
...adopt a puppy
...enjoy the old-book smell of a library
...help a neighbor shovel the front walk
...meet a newborn relative for the first time
...watch a sunset
...make a snow angel
...give a gift
...sing along to the radio
...write a poem
...leave your ideas for the next generation to inherit.

Being dead is a bad idea. You cheat yourself out of your life; you cheat everyone else out of all the good you could've done. And don't you dare say you're no use to anybody, because that's the depression talking. A human being is way too complex and sophisticated an organism to ever be useless.


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again_with_this
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07 Aug 2012, 11:56 pm

celebrei wrote:
I don't understand why society frowns upon suicide when death is the inevitable end of life's journey, accelerating the inevitable by suicide leaves a bad taste in people's mouths mainly because of the Abrahamic religions which points out that suicide is sinful/immoral, but from a practical and materialistic perspective isn't suicide more feasible than life long pain and suffering?...


I think the real stigma against suicide is that if death is inevitable, why rush it? It's going to come eventually, so why not just live a little bit more until you reach that point? Might as well, as you know you're guaranteed death at some point.

As far as pain and suffering, are you talking about physical pain, as in can never improve sort of pain? If that's the case, you're pretty much dead any way. Ironically, many of those people, because of their very conditions, don't even have the physical strength to commit suicide, so euthanasia is something to think about.

As far as mental pain, failed suicide attemptees have later stated they were glad they failed to kill themselves. Is someone undergoing mental suffering even in any kind of position to accurately determine weather suicide is the best option?



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08 Aug 2012, 12:02 am

Because being suicidal is using a temporary state, the hasten the inevitable makes you unable to life everything the future had in store for you.


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08 Aug 2012, 12:22 am

My half-brother commited suicide.
So I kind of understand it, but I also know what it does to the loved ones you leave behind.

I'm not interesseted in this religious debate in suicide and so on.

I think you have the right to choose what you want to do with your life, because it's your life.
But ppl should also remember what it does to the people they leave behind.


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Last edited by Raziel on 08 Aug 2012, 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

kBillingsley
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08 Aug 2012, 12:30 am

^Exactly. I once heard some wise words that went something like: "Suicide does not take away the pain, it only moves it onto your loved ones."



Crucial_BBQ
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08 Aug 2012, 12:33 am

celebrei wrote:
I don't understand why society frowns upon suicide when death is the inevitable end of life's journey, accelerating the inevitable by suicide leaves a bad taste in people's mouths mainly because of the Abrahamic religions which points out that suicide is sinful/immoral, but from a practical and materialistic perspective isn't suicide more feasible than life long pain and suffering? If you are a theist part. a Christian you would believe that suicide does not automatically grant eternal damnation to the "soul" of the sufferer because impaired thinking, pyschological problems and grave fear of hardship lessens the "sin" of the one who committed suicide, Protestanism generally regards it as sinful but does not damn the person to "hell" if the sinner fully accepts Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior before the taking one's life while Catholicism teaches that suicide victims can still be saved through prayers and salutary repentance offered by God. From a practical and materialist perspective, suicide is the end of all biological functions in a living organism, and therefore once the brain dies the mind dies as well meaning that one's consciousness does not survive biological death aka no afterlife, but annihilation doesn't sound to bad compared to lifelong misery since the cessation of all brain activity would render the dead person incapable of realizing his non-existence, as Mark Twain said I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” so either you are a theist, or an atheistic or agnostic death by suicide doesn't seem to be such a bad idea, even if God exists and assuming he is the same as the monotheistic god of religions he will still show mercy to the tormented soul who committed suicide, and if you are a non-believer and you believe death to be the absolute finality of everything then suicide offers eternal rest from all the misery of the world.
Well, I am an atheists so I do not see any sin if one commits suicide. However, as a member of humanity, I can see that suicide is often used as a means to end some sort of suffering or to be used as a political point. And that is sad. Some people are, well, mentally in a different place and no matter what you say or do can "bring them around", but for most it seems as if it is just a final means to end what should be a fixable situation.

I was talking to a co-worker about this a few days ago. Ironically, I mentioned to him that Darwin used to be a theologian and one of the things that turned him towards agnosticism was that he couldn't understand how so much suffering in the animal kingdom (predator/prey) could exist if God was so magnificent and benevolent. His response was that death, for humans, was a very sad affair because humans die in many unnatural and unneeded circumstances.

Such as hunger/malnutrition. It is absolutely bonkers to think that people out there are not getting food while others are. This is particularly odd when you remind yourself that all humans need to consume food to survive, yet, food for most is a commodity. Sad.

For me, in particular, though, I think that if someone really wants to die than that is their business. However, if one is not afraid to die, how will they fight to live? To be 100% honest, the one thing that broke me out of my aspie shell (as much as it could, anyways) was the fear of dying. I realized I didn't want to die a hermit who did nothing with himself/life, so I put myself out there and give it my best. I fail, lots of times, but who cares. I don't want any regrets.



celebrei
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08 Aug 2012, 2:04 am

Ganondox wrote:
Because being suicidal is using a temporary state, the hasten the inevitable makes you unable to life everything the future had in store for you.


Ah, but the future is clouded and filled with uncertainty, Asperger's Syndrome seems to be a semi-permanent seal to that fact, though I am not saying that Aspies are generally more miserable than neurotypicals, however AS does aggravate the misery factor because of loneliness and isolation that comes with it, let us disregard the moral and religious ramifications of suicide but instead focus on its' practicality, if the quality of one's life has been damaged to a point of no recovery, wouldn't suicide serve to save us from the unneccessary pain that comes with it? take for example Michèle Causse the lesbian theorist who had assisted suicide in Switzerland, wouldn't we all want to have this option of a painless and dignified death amidst immense pain and suffering? if only humans would be as cheerful and brave as she is in facing their own mortality:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-_uEmdm ... re=related



Raziel
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08 Aug 2012, 2:10 am

Well I want to add something:

I was once slightly suicidal for even years, but I never tryed. So the feeling was just there.
But for me it was never really an option.

But what I wanted to say is, that I started taking lithium and my suicidal feelings went away within 24-48 hours.
Now, today I just consider them as a "chemical imbalance" in my brain and don't even bother anymore when the feeling is sometimes comming up in my brain.

Because of my own experience I really ask myself if suicide is really the own persons choice or most of the time just a chemical imbalance in the brain?


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08 Aug 2012, 2:18 am

I get very nervous when people start talking about suicide for any reason. Please speak with someone close to you if those thoughts are occurring to you.


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08 Aug 2012, 2:36 am

again_with_this wrote:
As far as mental pain, failed suicide attemptees have later stated they were glad they failed to kill themselves.


As someone who failed a serious suicide attempt a number of years ago I can't say I share that sentiment; frequently quite the opposite! In addition to Asperger's I have cyclothymia and my moods swing from happy to normal to severely depressed several times a week. Life in general just isn't that great to be honest irrespective of the mood disorder. While I'm feeling quite happy today and the sun is shining it is extremely likely that I will take my own life at some point; maybe not the near future, maybe next year or in ten years time but it seems inevitable. There is only so much crap a person can put up with and want to face some more, day after day after day.