aspies, politically incorrect, huh?

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I really don't know where this idea comes from that aspies supposedly are politically incorrect, think outside the box or creatively. I have been on this forum for a while now and I have pretty much exclusively seen people who are very rigidly within the confines of the idea structures that they have been fed. Probably more so than the average person. I myself used to be extremely paranoid and sensitive and such and that seems to have gradually built up as some form of catapult mechanism where a little catalyst at the right moment made the entire system shoot over into some other state. I think that perhaps people on here fear subconsciously that something of this nature might happen to them, so they cling onto what they feel familiar with, even more fiercely than neurotypicals. It seems like there might be many differences between me and most people on here, and one of those things might be that I don't think I ever was like that, not even in my most paranoid phase. I never ever accepted the BS, I just persevered however bad it made me feel, and it got me down to a very low point, but that was where it all changed, it kind of shattered, but in a good way. I did however have a phase where I tried hard to be like others, but I don't recall that it made me like people on here, it just made me very neurotic and depressed.

What the heck?

There is a reason to be accommodating to people, and to live according to rules.

We must be philosophical--but there must be a basis for all this philosophy. Some of these bases might seem somewhat conventional to some.

Iconoclasm for the sake of iconoclasm SERVES NO PURPOSE.

I think outside the box when I feel like thinking outside the box.

I think inside the box when I feel like thinking inside the box.

Thank you for that very interesting and thoughtful comment. This is something I have been wondering about. It seems to me like my mind might have some form of automatic iconoclasm more or less "for the sake of iconoclasm". Whenever I feel that I'm in a context that has a critical level of comfort, it seems that my mind will manage that I create discomfort, for the sake of it. This is strange and something I have noticed in myself only lately, consciously. I have been looking into Marxism and communism lately, and the concept of dialectic, and vanguard party. There seems to be a very similar thing occurring in my own mind. Perhaps this is some form of "as above so below". Another thing that also appears to be as above so below, perhaps, is that as my mind seems to have transformed from a more rigid structure into a more loose, so does my outer world appear to follow a similar pattern.

The vanguard party is mentioned in this video. I think it was in a podcast somewhere I heard them talking about the vanguard party and saying that it is the neocons and the Israel lobby in America.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmRgMAZyYN0

I think it was in this audio file that he talks about the concept of the dialectic in Marxism:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J92f2S3E0S8

The connections between the mind, the spiritual and politics is something that has been interesting me for some time. Here's another interesting audio file:

http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2014/12/RIR-141205.php

I can't listen to your links yet; I'll have to wait until tomorrow (because where I am blocks most links).

As for Marxism: on the fact of it, it seems like sound theory with a logical basis.

People who believe in more money for more effort, however, are not fans of Marxism; they believe it dissolves the incentive to achieve. Equality, in the socialistic-communistic sense, evokes an extreme negative reaction in them.

Relatively more idealistic people, who feel the state of the world needs a rather radical change, tend to embrace many aspects of Marxism. This was especially true during the 1930's in Europe and the Western Hemisphere.

By and large, however, Marxism as an overriding governmental system has not worked well at all in places where the population is more than a few million. In fact, there are times when the results have been catastrophic (e.g., 1920s-1930s attempts at collectivized farming in the USSR, then famines which killed millions of people).

In greatly modified form, it has worked quite rather well for decades in the Scandinavian countries.

I was in a hurry to get to bed last night when I posted, that's why I posted links without explaining myself briefly the concepts that I was thinking about, which are mentioned in the links. Right now I'm in a hurry to get off to work. But just very briefly, to explain what I meant:

I'm talking about a "party", the vanguard party, which to me seems like it isn't necessarily "a party" in the ordinary sense of the word, but just one section of society. This is basically the most intelligent and powerful people it seems. They push perpetual global war and revolution, for reasons similar to why someone would push progress in science and technology. Whenever something has been the same for some time, it has stagnated, there is a push to reevaluate, reinvent, try to mix up things to see how you can progress, progress for progress' own sake. The dialectic is a similar thing. Like in the field of ideas, Jonathan Bowden describes the Frankfurt school as the dialectic of Marxism, it's purpose being to, for it's own sake, reevalutate and reinvent Marxism. This is what I mean seems to be very similar to what my mind is doing. My mind cannot stand comfort, it's like wherever there is comfort there is a rotten smell. This is mostly a subconscious mechanism, that leads to a partly conscious behavior, which I have lately observed and reflected upon. It might be related to whatever it was that always made me uncomfortable and that always made people uncomfortable around me. Why I always was neurotic and always had a depressive personality to one degree or another.

I would say our comfort/complacency level as quite high through most of the 90s until 9/11/01. After 9/11, e became involved in a roiling world situation which has been getting worse--especially recently, with advances in hacker technology amongst the North Koreans, and the cop/citizen battles. Complacency is not in the cards. We have to be extra-vigilant. I certainly don't feel comfy at this point.

Personal homeostasis is an elusive thing as a result.

Society is a compromise where we all pretend that someone has the right to rule over us out of the fear of the anarchy we are all truly within. As no person can truly claim legitimate authority over others, past whatever mask a government wears, it's only true method of control - over both population and resources - is through violence and the theft of rights through incarceration or the threat of such. These things then allow an amount of the controlled resources to be used to create secondary means of control, such as the establishment of "tradition" and "culture", often preying on man's eternal struggle to define his identity and his place in the world, while fostering an "us and them" mentality against people outside a certain governments area of control through such "shared identity" notions as "nationality" (a concept behind most of the worlds wars throughout history).

The best society can really do is set those who have the greatest capacity for violence and other methods of control against each other, and try to gain from their competition. Therefore - and sadly - any attempt at a truly equal and fair society is always doomed to fail, as there will always be people who are more willing to act for selfish gain than others.

*Sorry if I'm typing in an unclear fashion, it's 6am and I'm on a mobile lol

**I could probably further refine the above, but no sleep lol

You keep saying this.

I hate to break it to you, but noone is going to respond with "Goodness, you're right! Lead us to the correct path, O Enlightened One.".

What he said!

It is impossible to have a truly fair and equal society as society is usually created as a need to combat the unfair and cruel nature of humanity. So, if one wants to create a society that is fair and equal one needs to change the very human nature which is very unlikely to ever happen.

QFT.

A lot of people who wave the banner, "Look at me! I question the status quo and think outside the box!" can't accept the idea of someone actually thinking differently from themselves.

The truth is, if we have a view that we feel we developed honestly, we're not going to water it down to spare your feelings. We're going to tell you right to stuff it.

And you have to understand that the whole world is not Sweden. In fact, Sweden is sort of the opposite of what most of the world is, and that's not as fun as it sounds. In the Deep South US, you actually are conscripted, very forcibly, into a "bigotedly correct" view of the world, and if you question it, you're some "pinko commie" and a social pariah, as in people cross over to the other side of the street to avoid you if they see you come walking by the half-dozen, literally. If you're an outspoken atheist in some places, you're lucky not to be run out of town.

I am dead serious: I had a sociology professor whose wife gave a speech, and she was talking about how horrible and dysfunctional one school was because she saw someone in what she believed to be stereotypical "goth" attire, being something like black boots with a lot of buckles on them or something. I was not in a situation where it would have been safe to point out to her that most goths are really highly sensitive, overall straight-laced and bookish individuals, at least in my experience. She just took it for granted that anything associated with a generally liberal-minded counter-culture equated somehow to "moral insanity," and she had this sort of smarmy confidence that they were a bunch of troublemakers who needed someone to "set them straight." I wanted to give her a good, swift kick somewhere it hurt.

Basically, I've met people like you from places like Canada and Sweden, and they complain about the liberal "echo-chamber," and I keep telling them, "Sir, the grass is always greener." It's not like the more right-leaning countries are happy, "politically incorrect" places where people "aren't afraid to speak their minds." On the contrary, there are places in my country where openly questioning the status quo can get you punched in the teeth by some halfway ret*d steroid freak. In your country, the goons are overtly left-leaning union jerk-offs. Here, they are extreme conservative Christians who are all gung-ho about their "work-ethic" and bad-mouth welfare while being first to the teat as soon as they get into the slightest bit of trouble.

The people in any culture who view themselves as the "moral majority" are always like this. It's not because of the views they hold, but it's because of the defects in their character. Anyone who openly parrots the sentiments that their particular culture deems "acceptable" is going to have this arrogant attitude of entitlement that makes you want to kick them in the teeth with a combat boot.

Last edited by Persimmonpudding on 23 Dec 2014, 9:45 am, edited 3 times in total.

I am politically incorrect, I think outside the box and am very creative. Any more theories ?

Make that two of us...

Some of the replies were interesting, although some of it I struggle a bit to see exactly how, or if, it really connects to the actual topic of the thread. Was some of it somewhat going off on a sidetrack, perhaps as a result of misunderstanding or misinterpreting what I tried to convey, or was it just slightly going off in a somewhat different direction than I anticipated but still tying in to the topic, albeit perhaps not explicitly described how. When I read some of the replies I see several possibilities and in either case it is interesting to think about what ideas might lie behind the words.

I see comfort everywhere, and it is understandable. It might not always be that people think they are comfortable, it probably often is a psychological defense mechanism more or less of the opposite, feeling to various degree of consciousness that your mind and whatever might exist outside it are a quagmire. Comfort of thoughts serving basically the same function that the various rituals of someone obsessive-compulsive might. And being equally repetitive and empty of substance in most cases. Which is why I feel that interaction with people in general is lacking in substance most of the time, and why I feel alone. This in itself is a very interesting subject to me.

I didn't bring up Marxism because I intended to discuss Marxism per se, but only as an illustration. However, the way some of you spun off about various political ideas and even bringing up my country compared to others did in some way add an interesting dimension, although I might have hoped for someone to also address more of what I was trying to convey, perhaps, but maybe that was a bit vague despite my efforts to illustrate it.

The situation I observe and reflect upon with myself and others is fairly new, or at least it has changed a lot over time, and this is why I feel a desire to write about it.

I don't only have this experience on this forum, it is virtually everywhere. The fact that it is rather new to me means I have not developed my thoughts around it very much. That's why I'm writing about it. Sometimes on other forums I have been aggressive and more or less offensive as my mind more or less compulsively tries to force something out of a stagnant environment, anything.

Last edited by tomato on 23 Dec 2014, 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I didn't know you're Russian (am I correct?). I'm of Russian descent myself. One of my favorite writers is Dostoyevsky. Another is Solzhenitsyn.

I'm Swedish.

My wife went to Oslo, Norway once.

I've seen movies which take place in Stockholm and other cities, as well as the countryside. Yep....Sweden has the cradle-to-grave social system.

People tend to speak English well in Sweden. We Americans suck at languages other than English (especially away from the main urban areas).