This might be a weird question but need NT input

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I am an Aspie, but I have been given insight into the Neurotypical world. Understanding it has been a journey that has required me to step outside the box and understand an experience of the world that is much different from my own. My journey started when I tried to ask out a girl, who was a NT by the way, and lets just say that things didn't go too well. In fact I don't think things could have gone worse. She said I made her feel uncomfortable, and now she won't even talk to me, much less even give me eye contact. It was very devastating to me, because I really liked her. She was very pretty, and she even graduated from medical school. But what I decided to do was mentally go through our brief interactions that we had with each other and try to find out where I went wrong, so that I could avoid running into this situation again. I tried to enter her head and her own mindset in order to try to understand her experience of the world. The more I think about it, it turns out that I was pretty much screwed from the start, but here is what I came up with...

You only need two words to describe the Neurotypical mindset:

Feelings & Hierarchy

1) Feelings

Most Aspies think in facts. It governs our world and everything we do. We think about things before we say them. The push for knowledge and the drive to understand how things work is the force behind everything we do. NT's for the most part are not like this. They are instead controlled by their feelings. In a conversation, NT's don't think about what they are going to say; they just say it. They just feel the winds and look at where the conversation is going and take it from there. I have learned that even though small talk can be pointless at times, it still can be a valuable tool when fishing for information. It can also be a valuable tool for getting dates, because if a guy can get a girl talking, she just might warm up to him and be willing to go out with him. Also feeling your way through a conversation instead of intellectualizing it can also allow you to speed up your pace of conversation and keep the other person interested easier. There are some drawbacks though. Since NT's are largely concerned about feelings and not facts, they have little incentive to search out new information. Instead they like to hear things that make them feel good about themselves. This is why corrupt politicians often get re-elected. They tell the people what they want to hear, and most people don't think twice about it and see if their claims actually hold water. Also it is said that Aspies don't have empathy or the ability to understand how others are feeling. This is the biggest load of crap I have ever heard! I think that most Aspies actually understand empathy better than most NT's do. We just don't really have the need to express it, since we think in facts and not feelings. Also many NT's seem to fake their emotions. For instance, if someone they didn't like just so happened to die, they would fake grief, sorrow, sadness, or loss. Sometimes when Aspies are in a situation like this, they sometimes just don't know what they should feel.

2) Hierarchy

Aspies see most people in the world more or less as equals. Since we are all people, we all deserve the same respect. If you say you can do something, I will give you the chance to see if you can do it. But NT's are not really like this. To them it is all about hierarchy and being at the top. I think that many Aspies are unaware of this or don't think there is one, but the vast majority of the world believes one exists. This is why NT's are really concerned about popularity. They may even worry about it to the point of getting worn out or depressed. If they are well liked by everyone, follow all the latest trends, and are given more social status, then to them this puts them higher on the totem pole. This is also why NT's have a herd mentality. If people like what their friends like, this makes them more popular. But NT's are uncomfortable, aghast, or even confounded when they see that Aspies absolutely refuse to play their silly games. Aspies understand that nothing worth remembering comes from being popular for the sake of being popular. What matters is actually making a worthwhile contribution to society. This is why Aspies write computer programs, write books, and even do groundbreaking scientific research (Newton & Einstein were both Aspies by the way). The desire to be on the top of the pecking order is also why many NT's resort to bullying. They are insecure, and if they see someone whose life is better than theirs, then bringing them down will make them feel like they are back on top. It doesn't really change in the adult world either. Many NT's will lie and kiss up to their boss, telling them what they want to hear. This oftentimes results in favors, good standing, or even promotions. At parties, when an Aspie sees everyone laughing and having a good time, the Aspie might say to himself, "Gee, everyone looks like they are becoming good friends!" If NT's heard this comment, they would just laugh and laugh, for they know that isn't really true. What they are really doing is barking up the tree in order to gain favors, sex, higher social standing, etc.

I am not saying that Aspies should ever have to change who they are or have play these stupid games, but understanding that these two things are going on in the social dynamic can really help any Aspie navigate their way through a social stiuation. If I had understood these things earlier, it would have relieved me of a lot of pain and suffering. If you are interested tough, you might want to look into the terrible, but common, mental defect called Neurotypical Syndrome.

1. I think that Aspies think more, NTs feel more. The Aspie thought process is more logical and more free of errors, but it might appear slower as they have to think through everything instead of just relying on their feelings, which is one thing that impairs social interaction.

2. I think Aspies are more of "learning for the sake learning, creating for the sake of creating, doing good for the sake of doing good, as I enjoy it or it is logically it is needed for the good of the world" while NTs are "Doing all of the former for the sake of giving me an advantage in the social world".

3. Read what the other guys wrote. I'm just making stuff up that I belief applies to me and stuff that I learned from observation based research of NTs.

I've been told I process things differently. I have no idea how mine is any different. My mother could mean how I learn or how I understand things or figure things out. People can tell I think and see things differently just by talking to me and the way I communicate.

When I started reading the thread I was worried that it ended in 2008 and I was too late to participate. I was glad to discover there is still discussion going on now in 2011. I'm NT and I think that in some ways I think like an NT and in some ways I think "outside the box." One thing that I personally do often is try to put myself in another person's shoes and try to understand what they feel and why they feel that way. I think I'm better than NT average at perceiving non-verbal communication and better than NT average at projecting my own non-verbal communication. One of my teachers once called me her classroom barometer. If she wanted to know if the class was understanding a concept she would look in my direction. If I looked puzzled or if I was nodding my head, etc.

I like to talk with my hands, gesture, gesticulate, smile, laugh, tell stories about things that have happened whether they were good or bad experiences and reflect on how I was thinking or feeling at that time, and even how I might feel differently about it today. I also listen to the stories of others, and I'm doing many things at once while I listen - I'm thinking about what they're saying, I'm relating it to my own experiences, I'm wondering what I would do in their situation, I'm responding often --nods, thoughful expressions, saying "yes" or "uh-huh" --so I am responding without interrupting and so they know I'm listening and that their words matter to me, and finally, I try to respond in a way that is both helpful and comforting. If someone told me her cat died, I might respond with surprise, then concern, then apology. I didn't have anything to do with the cat's death but I know that if my pet died I'd be sad, so I want her to know I understand that is a hard thing to experience and that I'm here for her if she wants to talk about it. Maybe she'll want to talk about the good memories of the cat, how stressful it was to go to the vet, etc.

I think there is an unspoken social contract about comforting others when they are distressed so that they will in turn comfort us when we are in distress. (I just read about reciprocity on wikipedia.) Likewise about congratulating someone when they've done something they are proud of so that they will return the favor. It isn't malicious or intentionally deceitful. It's more just like the idea that everyone likes being treated nicely. Like if a coworker says look at this scarf I knitted, maybe I love knitting or maybe I hate knitting or maybe I have never tried knitting and have no intention of doing so; in any case I can still congratulate her on something she is proud of, because I can think about how she worked hard on it and cared about it while she was doing it.

I have been accused sometimes of being "too nice," "too apologetic," or "too submissive." (I have the opposite problem of some Aspies!) Unless it is a subject about which I feel very strongly, I am more interested in getting along than arguing an opinion or fact. Maybe it is like extending a lesser version of the love & respect we feel for those closest to us toward everyone, unless they have given a specific reason to dislike them or be wary of them. Then I adapt by being more guarded. If I perceived that someone was more likely to be mean than empathetic I wouldn't tell him about something that happened to me that made me feel emotionally vulnerable, like if my cat died (just an example, sorry to be redundant), because if that person laughed and said, "Good, I'm glad, your cat was annoying, good riddance" etc. my feelings would be hurt. I have to protect my emotional state by deciding who I can trust and open up to. I have sometimes been accused of being naive, but it isn't that I don't understand people. Instead, I am sometimes more willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt when I'm unsure and be pleasantly proved right than assume the worse and miss out on a friendship.

All that being said (phew will this lady ever shut up? haha) I don't think most NT's understand how to put into words everything that I have attempted to sum up here. I think most "norm's" just do all of this without thinking and would be just as confused trying to put it into words as Aspies.

I often get along well with Aspies because we counter-balance and have different strengths and challenges. I may be more likely than other NT's to think that someone is being mean to me, but I am also more likely to bring it up in a way I hope is unobtrusive, inquire, and accept an explanation. "I don't hate you or want you to experience pain, I just really hate cats."

Maybe something we are all guilty of at different times in different ways is making assumptions and not discussing them.

I hope this helps someone.

Our brains work differently than NT's. It's just not thinking differently but the actual processes are different, and some areas of the brain are either bigger or smaller or dysfunctioing or over functioning.

I think this is excellent. My comments:

1. Aspies can be overly nice, apologetic, submissive, and naive too, I think Aspies are more likely to be at either politeness extreme than the general population. The key word is the overly, as Aspies don't understand social conventions they may go out of their way to do everything possible to try to avoid accidentally breaking one, causing them to be overly polite in an informal situation, and they may be overly nice or naive as they simply are overly nice or naive.
2. The reason an aspie gives honest feedback is not because they are being unempathetic and not seeking recipite, it's because they are being empathetic and seeking recipite in an aspie was: As aspies care more for factual information than their feelings they would rather receive honest feedback. For things like this Aspies can going very wrong when they try to put themselves in NT shoes.
3. Putting yourself in another's shoes is not automatic for aspies, but a lot of stuff aren't automatic for aspies. That does not mean that they do not try to do it.

I kept trying to figure out what the system of employment was. I kept trying to figure out what the rules were. I had to think outside of the box myself. If you look at what employers say they want, the self help books, and listen to what some NTs say I believe we are going by the wrong axiom. We keep trying to look for rules, procedures, and patterns. I believe it is a system alright but not a system of rules. It is a system of relationships. It is a matter of who you truly know that determines how successful you will be in employment and other aspects of your life.

Listen to what NTs around you say. Do they talk about rules and procdures or do they talk about relationships, attitude, and things along these lines? One school in which I had to do a job for had this up on their walls. "You're attitude is more important than the facts." Look at their dinner parties and other shindigs they have. If a person takes too much of the food they considered inconsiderate. I would've thought if this occurred that we need a rule governing how much each person is allowed to have. In my opinion, it was a flaw in how the shindig was ran.

When they say certain things to like be yourself, it means to be your best NT self. They want things like honesty and consideration for their feelings. For this example, you have to combine honesty and consideration for their feelings. Certain things will hurt their feelings. If you tell an NT woman she looks fat she will be devestated.

I doubt that there is "an NT thinking pattern" - introvert NTs think in a way different from extrovert NTs, NTs with "high openness" think in a way different from NTs with "low openness", etc. Probably many NTs have a thinking process more similar to some aspie that with some other NTs.

I agree with this. I really wish they didn't notice us, it would make a aspie's quality of life much better.

I am an Aspie, and I know how I think. But I cannot know for sure how NTs think. I can offer my opinion on this question though. I believe that NTs often think in ways that involve more socializing (like planning social events, etc.). As an Aspie, I believe we think more centered on our special intense interests. I believe NTs often look forward to the weekend so they can socialize, whereas we Aspies might look forward to having time with our interests.

This is largely correct. I can go into details on the mechanisms for it if anyone is interested.

I believe NTs need input from other people to complete their thinking patterns. They need a connection with someone else to complete the circuit.

Aspies can complete their own circuits.

That's a good way of putting it.

Well, this is simply introversion & extroversion at play. Introverts rebuild by/with thinking in alone states. Extroverts reconstruct at the social interface. And this M.O. or bias is neurological, independent of culture. Humanity is split along on this scale. More divergences: Add in executive dysfunction as in Inattentive ADHD and you are an introvert with working memory problems. Or Add in (mild) AS and and likely you are an introvert with problems in "ToM."

There a lot of ADHD autistic extraverts.

I was not talking about introversion vs. extroversion. If I had meant that, that is what I would have said.

NT introverts still have thought patterns based on social understanding no matter how much time they spend alone. They need contact with other people to build those thought patterns, even if they need to be alone to process those thoughts.