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Do you belive touretts is a form of autism
yes 4%  4%  [ 2 ]
yes 4%  4%  [ 2 ]
no 40%  40%  [ 21 ]
no 40%  40%  [ 21 ]
don't know 6%  6%  [ 3 ]
don't know 6%  6%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 52

solid
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04 Jan 2006, 8:26 am

Their symtoms are mostly the same as asperger syndrome including:-
being unable to deal with change
stimming but in a different way with their tics by swearing and other things instead
they sometimes have problems with their coordination
1 girl out of 4 boys have it which is the same as autism
they sometimes have learning difficulties
and
they have social difficulties
-------------------------------
Also I belive I have touretts because i have non verbal tics with my muscules.
Especially when its cold
---------------------------
I wait for your replies
Thanx


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solid
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04 Jan 2006, 8:40 am

why are you saying no without reading my post 1st


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04 Jan 2006, 9:09 am

Tourette's has been found to be oftentimes comorbid with autism. This means that many people who are autistic (or somewhere on the spectrum) also have Tourette's. Also, there are some similarities: both are neurological and often diagnosed in childhood.

But some people are autistic/AS and don't have Tourette's or vice versa. If they are both the same thing, how would you explain that?


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04 Jan 2006, 9:46 am

solid wrote:
why are you saying no without reading my post 1st


If you are so assured you are right, why did you make a poll where we could disagree?

Tourette's is a neurological condition, but not all neurological conditions have to be autism.

I know a few people with Tourette's, aside from having some things in common with AS, such are being very high functioning yet having significant social problems, they lack several traits which used to be the defining criteria for AS, such as:

- apparent left brain hyperdevelopment/emphasis
- emphasis on systematic thinking
- inclinations towards data collecting
- obsessiveness about facts, numbers, patterns and other impersonal information
- perference for objects/information over people/socializing
- high intelligence in areas of left brain function

In AS, it was thought that these primary traits lead to social developmental issues, just like several other neurolgical conditions: the specific grouping of neurological traits unique to that condition was the root of social developmental problems. But now social developmental issues are often focused on as the main trait of AS even to the exculsion of the formal grouping of primary traits. That means potentially anyone with any underlying neurological condition that results in social develomental issue could get dx'd with AS. And trust me, it's already happening.

I don't mind there being a some broad connection between Tourette's and AS - for example, that historically both of these conditions seem disproportionately high among ethnic Jews. But also bear in mind, they do seem distinct, since Jewish families may have a history of one, but not the other. Mine has a history of AS, whereas a teh family of a Jewish friend of mine has only a history of Tourette's.

But given things like this, I am open to the notion that AS is possibly more closely related to Tourette's than to LFA. But that doesn't necessarily make Tourette's autism. I just don't think we have to simplify every neurological condition down to the common demoninator of autism. But then again I also think it's due time to reconsider Dr. Asperger's original conviction that AS isn't really autism.



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04 Jan 2006, 10:14 am

Was the inspiration for this thread the tourettes camp doccumentary that was on last night?

I'm not going to comment on whether I think Tourettes is part of Autism as I'm not researched enough to do so.


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04 Jan 2006, 11:57 am

No, I don't think it's a form of autism. But as Namiko said, they are frequently comorbid. And sometimes I think Touretters who aren't full-blown autistic have shadow symptoms. But there are definitely also people with Tourette's who don't show autistic signs at all.

solid wrote:
stimming but in a different way with their tics by swearing and other things instead


It's my understanding that these are compulsions. Quite different from self-stimulation, though they can probably sometimes look the same.

Sean may be better able to answer the personal differences since he has both Aspergers and Tourette's.


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toonaspie
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04 Jan 2006, 12:14 pm

The only bit of knowledge I have of Tourette's came from an episode of 7th Heaven I saw where a little kid would endlessly repeat a two word phrase as soon as it is said by someone else That doesnt sound like something an autistic person would do...least I hope not. In my opinion an autistic person would like to quote whatever he likes to quote but he wont do it endlessly.

My other source regarding Tourette's came from a story I think a prof told me about how this 18 year old boy would make a habit out of holding a piece of paper outside of a moving car and then try to catch it when it got out of his hand, which he did so well.

I dunno if any of this makes sense but that story sounds like he was stimming...somewhat. I wouldnt be so sure though. Mental disorders are so catergorized these days. There's probably more to it. I would look it up on my favorite research site wiki. :)



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04 Jan 2006, 5:08 pm

The usual medication for ADHD gives me Tourette's, or perhaps heightens it. Don't remember the experience well, because I couldn't stop blinking and was really socially nervous. I notice the similarities, but would have to say they probably feel different.


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04 Jan 2006, 5:57 pm

The TS/AS connection is stronger than one might think.

TS is believed to originate from problems in the basal ganglia area of the brain. The basal ganglia deals with motor control and since people with AS tend to have bad motor skills, it's theroized that we have problems too in that area of the brain.


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05 Jan 2006, 12:06 pm

Scoots5012 wrote:
The TS/AS connection is stronger than one might think.

TS is believed to originate from problems in the basal ganglia area of the brain. The basal ganglia deals with motor control and since people with AS tend to have bad motor skills, it's theroized that we have problems too in that area of the brain.


I had always heard that our motor coordination problems arise most likely from problems in the Cerebellum, which controls balance and motor coordination (among other things). I know that they have found many cases of abnormal size in parts of the Cerebellar Vermis. Though I suspect for this they strictly used Autistic Disorder subjects, so it's harder to generalize. It seems so rare do they do any kind of brain research on Aspergers.

Although Basal Ganglia abnormalities wouldn't surprise me either. Actually, ANY abnormalities in the brain wouldn't surprise me since the word "pervasive" seems to encompass more than just behavioral symptoms.


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05 Jan 2006, 5:57 pm

I have had a few tic-like symptoms before. As a young child, I used to snort repeatedly instead of blowing my nose. Later, around seventh grade, when I was twelve or thirteen years old, I started coughing repetitively after catching a cold or having allergies of some kind; the cough persisted after the illness and may have become a slight tic.

solid wrote:
Their symtoms are mostly the same as asperger syndrome including:-
being unable to deal with change
stimming but in a different way with their tics by swearing and other things instead
they sometimes have problems with their coordination
1 girl out of 4 boys have it which is the same as autism
they sometimes have learning difficulties
and
they have social difficulties
-------------------------------
Also I belive I have touretts because i have non verbal tics with my muscules.
Especially when its cold
---------------------------
I wait for your replies
Thanx

The formal diagnostic criteria for Tourette syndrome don't mention any of these things:
DSM-IV-TR wrote:
This Tic Disorder is diagnosed when BOTH motor AND vocal tics ("sudden, rapid, recurrent, nonrhythmic, stereotyped motor movement or vocalization") are experienced persistently. (Named for Gilles de la Tourette)

Diagnostic criteria for 307.23 Tourette's Disorder

A. Both multiple motor and one or more vocal tics have been present at some time during the illness, although not necessarily concurrently. (A tic is a sudden, rapid, recurrent, nonrhythmic, stereotyped motor movement or vocalization.)

B. The tics occur many times a day (usually in bouts) nearly every day or intermittently throughout a period of more than 1 year, and during this period there was never a tic-free period of more than 3 consecutive months.

C. The onset is before age 18 years.

D. The disturbance is not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., stimulants) or a general medical condition (e.g., Huntington's disease or postviral encephalitis).

ICD-10 Bluebook, Chapter V, wrote:
F95.2 Combined vocal and multiple motor tic disorder [de la Tourette's syndrome]

A form of tic disorder in which there are, or have been, multiple motor tics and one or more vocal tics, although these need not have occurred concurrently. Onset is almost always in childhood or adolescence. A history of motor tics before development of vocal tics is common; the symptoms frequently worsen during adolescence, and it is common for the disorder to persist into adult life. The vocal tics are often multiple with explosive repetitive vocalizations, throat-clearing, and grunting, and there may be the use of obscene words or phrases. Sometimes there is associated gestural echopraxia, which also may be of an obscene nature (copropraxia). As with motor tics, the vocal tics may be voluntarily suppressed for short periods, be exacerbated by stress, and disappear during sleep.

ICD-10 Greenbook, Chapter V, wrote:
F95.2 Combined vocal and multiple motor tic disorder [de la Tourette's syndrome]

A. Multiple motor tics and one or more vocal tics that have been present at some time during the disorder, but not necessarily concurrently.

B. The frequency of tics must be many times a day, nearly every day for more that one year, with no period of remission during that year lasting longer than two months.

C. Onset before 18 years of age.



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06 Jan 2006, 11:45 am

I had a tic for about two years (started when I was 9 I think) of clearing my throat. I hated it. Especially when all was quiet and my throat clearing was all that could be heard in a room. Over and over again.

I didn't have allergies at the time nor did I have a constant cold.

My dad had several tics. Sniffing was one he did constantly. He also did the throat-clearing thing. And he also nodded but I'm still not too sure whether that was a tic or a stim. And it's too late to find out now.


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11 Jan 2006, 10:41 am

I had lots of tics... got rid of most, but sometimes I do this thing with my head. It is so infrequent that I don't debate what it means.


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11 Jan 2006, 10:55 am

I have had at times strange compulsions to yell or do inappropriate things and sometimes it takes a fair deal of concentration to not do them. I've never done them, thankfully. And they don't happen too often but when they do, I am always with people. Usually people I would have reason to impress.

Is there a Tourette's continuum, does anyone know, where every person on earth can have these thoughts/compulsions at one time or another and it's just the extreme that makes it a Tic Disorder or Tourette's??


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11 Jan 2006, 12:26 pm

http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis1/p21-ch04.html


Tourette's Disorder
American Description


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Diagnostic Criteria
A. Both multiple motor and one or more vocal tics have been present at some time during the illness, although not necessarily concurrently. (A tic is a sudden, rapid, recurrent, nonrhythmic, stereotyped motor movement or vocalization.)
B. The tics occur many times a day (usually in bouts) nearly every day or intermittently throughout a period of more than 1 year, and during this period there was never a tic-free period of more than 3 consecutive months.
C. The disturbance causes marked distress or significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.
D. The onset is before age 18 years.
E. The disturbance is not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., stimulants) or a general medical condition (e.g., Huntington's disease or postviral encephalitis).

Actually Neathumain the only flaw with that criteria is their is a quite reliable information I found that adds Social impairment and disturbances to the criteria.



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11 Jan 2006, 1:08 pm

pad wrote:
C. The disturbance causes marked distress or significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.


I think there's been a push to have that piece of the criteria removed, since Tourette's is Tourette's regardless of how happy the person is with it or whether they are in a situation where it doesn't interfere with these things. May even have been removed already in the DSM-IV-TR.

Edit: Yes. That's no longer part of the criteria:

http://www.tourettes-disorder.com/dsm.html


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