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LipstickKiller
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27 Apr 2009, 10:08 am

I'm in the process of getting a diagnosis, but it just occured to me that since I'm on an SSRI maybe my symptoms are in fact reduced. I've been on them for years so I couldn't say what I'd be like without them (except more anxious). Do you have any experience with SSRI's and AS? Which symptoms were reduced?



Jamin
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27 Apr 2009, 10:48 am

In theory.....

Since AS is a neurologic wiring anomaly...
SSRI's would be as useful in treating AS as they would be in fixing color-blindness.

But...

SSRI's are very good indeed for the treatment of anxiety-spectrum disorders.

The two can co-exist together, and often do.

.


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zeichner
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27 Apr 2009, 11:11 am

Temple Grandin reports that for people on the Spectrum, they can indeed be helpful in controlling anxiety - but due to the nature of the ASD brain, dosage should be kept very low (1/2 to 1/3 the normal dose.) Evidently, too high dosage can make things incredibly worse for people with ASD. She goes on to say that when the ASD patient's current dosage doesn't seem to be working, the correct procedure should always be to lower the dose, not raise it.


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27 Apr 2009, 1:28 pm

I've been taking a kind of Prozac for 2 years, ever since the anxiety became unmanageable due to the constant pain of extreme social rejection and therefore being fired from all jobs. It helps a lot with the anxiety and the physical pain of rejection, as well as the mental pain to a certain extent. Regarding AS symptoms, that's a totally unrelated issue. I don't have better motor skills or better social intuition due to the pill, of course.


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TXaspie
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27 Apr 2009, 2:26 pm

I hate SSRI's....

Everyone I know that started taking them is not themselves anymore, they are without life. I'd rather be dead when take an SSRI lol.

Try ST John's Wort.

It's natural and it works for anxiety/depression, doesn't kill your libido and turn you into a fake shadow of yourself.



LipstickKiller
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27 Apr 2009, 2:48 pm

I don't want to be without the SSRI's and I think I'm at a pretty good dose, although it is at the higher and rather than the lower. I've been taking different doses for the past nine years, including none. My question is rather if anyone has experienced any reduction in their AS symptoms, as I've found articles online suggesting that social behaviour as well as stimming may be improved by taken SSRI's. I guess I'm worried I won't get the diagnosis on account of already being on medication.



millie
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27 Apr 2009, 3:00 pm

Quote:
zeichner wrote:
Temple Grandin reports that for people on the Spectrum, they can indeed be helpful in controlling anxiety - but due to the nature of the ASD brain, dosage should be kept very low (1/2 to 1/3 the normal dose.) Evidently, too high dosage can make things incredibly worse for people with ASD. She goes on to say that when the ASD patient's current dosage doesn't seem to be working, the correct procedure should always be to lower the dose, not raise it.



agreed.
I was on SSRI medication for nearly 11 years. I came off 5 months ago. The ASD co-morbids of anxiety and depression benefited from SSRI medication.
I had an amazing result wtih a miniscule dose - and thsi is the first time i have read of temple's reference to a low dose for people with AS.
If anxiety and depression are aided by SSRI meds, then that celars teh way for a healthier management of various AS traits such as sensory problems, executive function and social anxiety etc etc. The whole shabang cannot be separated out into "this is Anxiety and this is depression and this is your AS." Any view that maintains that - on a post in this thread or anywhere else, fails to understand the holistic and symbiotic relationship between co-morbids and AS and how they all feed into each other in terms of severity and actuteness. Good psychologists - and i mean GOOD ONES who are on the side of ASD people - do understand this and will help.

SO...SSRI meds can INDEED help to alleviate certain facets or issues that are specific to AS. If one has reduced anxiety and depression from SSRI meds, that may well lead to a clearer mind - and a clearer mind may then be able to absorb a few social skill tricks or a bit of fine tuning with regard to management of AS traits in the form of having enough clarity to write lists, do diaphragmatic breathing exercises, go for walks to help with stimming and meltdowns blah blah blah blah.

I did choose to come off SSRI medication because they actually affect my perseverative tendencies and affected the quality of my special interests. They lifted me into a more social realm which i actually loathed and they robbed me of a kind of intensity that is at the heart of who i am. I felt "surface" on them. I felt superficial and devoid of the very heart of myself. I felt like i was part of prozac nation. BUT - THEY Did save my life, and without them i would not be here. I know they served a valuable purpose until my diagnosis and that is how they helped me. They also stopped working and i wa sjust as depressed anyway, after years on them.

Now i choose to manage my ASD without the miniscule does of anti-d's that kept me alive for years.

ANd now, All i know is i have to work a little harder to manage my anxiety and depression, but I am more "me" and les social and more reclusive. I am also harder to live with - I am told - and i am far, far by far the happiest i have ever been in my life. I have answers, i am not on drugs, i paint, and i just live for my work and potter around like an ageing eccentric. not a bad way to be, really.

My view of all medications - is they can help at certain points in time and they can beneift an individual if used responsibly.

I am personally glad to be off SSRI meds and I am glad to be managing my ASD and its co-morbids in a manner that revolves around personal accoutnability, self-education and purity of self and vision and thought. I don;t want any medication stuffing around with who i am and what i am.

Sure, i stim and rock a bit and i am a bit weird. I am evidently weird actually. But I am also ok as I am and as hard as things can get, i just do not want to return to the blah blah blah of SSRI's.......they really are teh 21at century's "mothers' little heplers."



Last edited by millie on 28 Apr 2009, 4:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

luchog
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27 Apr 2009, 4:33 pm

TXaspie wrote:
I hate SSRI's....

Everyone I know that started taking them is not themselves anymore, they are without life. I'd rather be dead when take an SSRI lol.

Try ST John's Wort.

It's natural and it works for anxiety/depression, doesn't kill your libido and turn you into a fake shadow of yourself.


The active compound in St. John's Wort is an SSRI.



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27 Apr 2009, 8:13 pm

I took SSRIs for my OCD/anxiety before (and for a few months after) my AS diagnosis. They never did anything for me but make me incredibly tired. I have not had a good personal experience with them, but they are a miracle drug for some. I happen to fall into the category of Aspies who need very low doses of psychiatric medications. I only usually take the 0.125 mg Klonopin wafers, and my obsessions have been virtually stopped on a mere 50 mg of Anafranil.
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oppositedirection
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27 Apr 2009, 9:08 pm

I was on Paroxetine for about 8 months many years ago. I think I was moderately more sociable but this was years before I was diagnosed so it's difficult to remember.



Master_Shake
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27 Apr 2009, 9:17 pm

luchog wrote:
The active compound in St. John's Wort is an SSRI.


The active compound in St. John's Wort is believed to be more like an MAOI, and can possibly have the same fatal hypertensive reaction when large amounts of food (aged cheese, aged meat) containing the amino acid tyramine are eaten.

This has not been proven, but just a warning for people taking St. John's Wort, do research on MAOIs and tyramine to find out about diet restrictions.

Oh and by the way, research has found that those with traditional autism have higher levels of serotonin floating around in their blood. This doesn't mean their brain has higher amounts of serotonin, actually their brain may metabolize serotonin differently.

A study was published in the Archives of General Psychiatry (1996;53:984-996, 979-980, 997-1003) in which the SSRI Drug luvox was given to autistic adults and they apparently became less aggressive and more adept at reciprocal interaction. I have yet to read this particular study, but I am skeptical that an SSRI can actually improve the symptoms of autism rather than just covering them up.


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27 Apr 2009, 10:14 pm

As far as Aspergers is concerned, I do not know. But I'm going to throw this on SSRI's into it because I am so anti-industry lies right now.


From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_ ... _inhibitor

Quote:
Criticism
See also: Biopsychiatry controversy and Biological psychiatry
In late 2004 media attention was given to a proposed link between SSRI use and juvenile suicide. For this reason, the use of SSRIs in pediatric cases of depression is now recognized by the United States FDA as warranting a cautionary statement to the parents of children who may be prescribed SSRIs by a family doctor. The FDA's currently required packaging insert for SSRIs includes a warning (known as a "black box warning") that a pooled analysis of placebo controlled trials of 9 antidepressant drugs (including multiple SSRIs) resulted in a risk of suicidality that was twice that of placebo. At the same time, in adults SSRIs do not increase the risk of suicide.[63]

Critics of SSRIs claim that the widely-disseminated television and print advertising of SSRIs promotes an inaccurate message, oversimplifying what these medications actually do and deceiving the public.[64]

The criticism stems from questions about the validity of claims that SSRIs work by 'correcting' chemical imbalances. Without accurately measuring patients' neurotransmitter levels to allow for continuous monitoring during treatment, it is impossible to know if one is correctly targeting a deficient neurotransmitter (i.e. correcting an imbalance), reaching a desirable level, or even introducing too much of a particular neurotransmitter. Thus it has been argued that SSRIs can actually cause chemical imbalances and abnormal brain states. Hence it is purported that when a patient discontinues an SSRI, they may have a chemical imbalance due to the rapid cessation of the drug which is causing the discontinuation syndrome.[65]

One possible mechanism is by inhibition of dopaminergic neurotransmission.[66]

Biopsychiatrists believe that, among other factors, the balance of neurotransmitters in the brain is a biological regulator of mental health. In this theory, emotions within a "normal" spectrum reflect a proper balance of neurochemicals, but abnormally extreme emotions, such as clinical depression, reflect an imbalance. Psychiatrists claim that medications regulate neurotransmitters, and many if not most psychiatrists also claim they treat abnormal personalities by removing a neurochemical excess or replenishing a deficit (though the efficacy of antidepressants and antipsychotics is not undisputed[67]). On the other hand, Elliot Valenstein, a psychologist and neuroscientist, claims that the broad biochemical assertions and assumptions of mainstream psychiatry are not supported by evidence.[68]

One controversial critic of antidepressants, Peter Breggin, a physician who opposes the overuse of prescription medications to treat patients for mental health issues, predicted iatrogenic issues that SSRIs incur on a significant percentage of patients. Another prominent SSRI critic is David Healy.

A widely-reported meta-analysis combined 35 clinical trials submitted to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) before licensing of four newer antidepressants (including the SSRIs paroxetine and fluoxetine, and two non-SSRI antidepressants nefazodone and venlafaxine). The authors found that although the antidepressants were statistically superior to placebo they did not exceed the NICE criteria for a 'clinically significant' effect. In particular they found that the effect size was very small for moderate depression but increased with severity reaching 'clinical significance' for very severe depression. The relationship between severity and efficacy was attributed to a reduction of the placebo effect in severely depressed patients, rather than an increase in the effect of the medication.[69] [70] [71] [72] [73] [74]

A study in the New England Journal of Medicine on a possible publication bias regarding the efficacy of SSRI medications in the treatment of depression suggests that their effectiveness and risk-benefit ratios may be greatly exaggerated. Of 74 studies registered with the United States FDA, 37 with positive results were published in academic journals, while 22 studies with negative results were not published and 11 with negative results were published in a way that conveyed a positive outcome (one positive study was not published and three negative studies were published with results that were portrayed as negative). Overall, 94% of studies actually published were positive outcomes; when published and unpublished studies were included for analysis, the percentage of positive outcomes was 51%.[75]


And, from http://www.squidoo.com/schoolshooting (which is my child psyc paper that I stuck on there, but the study I obtained my info on, Sharav, 2004, requires a subscription to access, and I no longer subscribe to it. But I do remember reading a lot more on the subject, but I couldn't quite fit it into my paper.)

Quote:
According to Sharav (2004), the Food and Drug Administration produced two Acts: The Food and Drug Administration Modernization Act of 1997 and extended version of Better Pharmaceuticals for Children Act of 2002. In these acts, sizable financial incentives and patent extensions were given to companies who performed drug research on children. Specialists in trials earned over a million a year. In addition, regardless of laws and acts stating unethical to do so, physicians still received 2-5 thousand dollars for each child referred to trials. Since these Acts, child research participants grew from 16,000 in 1997 to 45,000 in 2001. Adverse side effects often times remain unreported. In Pfizer (1996) clinical study on sertraline (Zoloft), 9% of the children tested attempted suicide (as cited in Sharav). One of those cases mutilated himself before his attempt; however, the published report said, "Sertraline was well tolerated by both child and adolescent patients" (as cited in Sharav).



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27 Apr 2009, 11:21 pm

with me, its love hate, love how it stops my OCD, hate how it screws up my libido and causes me to become depressed.


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28 Apr 2009, 5:58 am

SSRIs seem to help with the repetitive behaviours, just as it helps the obsessions and rituals in OCD.

Quote:
AUTISM: THE CINGULATE STRIKES AGAIN

The second subgroup of OC spectrum disorders, those involving neurologic diagnoses, is represented by autism, which is characterized by striking social deficits, speech and language problems, and—of relevance here—repetitive behaviors and a narrow range of interests. "We think of this disorder as having multiple, different genetic components, each coding for a different symptom dimension," Dr. Hollander said.

There does appear to be a substantial genetic component to the OC symptoms in autism. First-degree family members of autistic individuals have high rates of OCD, and they often have subtle social deficits and language problems, Dr. Hollander noted. Rates of OCD and OC symptoms are highest among first-degree relatives of autistic probands with severe repetitive behaviors.

In crossover trials comparing fluoxetine and placebo, the SSRI was effective in reducing global autism severity; the improvements may have been due to reductions in repetitive behavior and perhaps impulsive/aggressive symptoms. Individuals with the greatest metabolic activity in anterior inferior regions of the cingulate had the most severe repetitive behaviors, but also the best response to fluoxetine, "so again anterior cingulate activity may be a predictor of SSRI response across different disorders," Dr. Hollander said.



TXaspie
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28 Apr 2009, 10:55 am

luchog wrote:
TXaspie wrote:
I hate SSRI's....

Everyone I know that started taking them is not themselves anymore, they are without life. I'd rather be dead when take an SSRI lol.

Try ST John's Wort.

It's natural and it works for anxiety/depression, doesn't kill your libido and turn you into a fake shadow of yourself.


The active compound in St. John's Wort is an SSRI.


I know, but it doesn't work anyway like prescription SSRI's. Go read up on it.

You can take it anytime and quit taking it anytime, there's no weening off or side effects. Who would want low libido, muscles cramps and diahrea?

St johns wort doesn't cause all that, prescription SSRI's that turn you into a pathetic clone of a person do cause that.



TXaspie
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28 Apr 2009, 10:56 am

cognito wrote:
with me, its love hate, love how it stops my OCD, hate how it screws up my libido and causes me to become depressed.


See, it's not worth it. Try St John's wort....if anything.

Don't give in to prescription company s, you're giving them money and they're taking your life.