Do you feel like an invalid?

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Should we autistic people delude ourselves in this darwinian world where there is no free will? I've seen many articles on the net, and comments made in thsi forum that subtly downplay negatives and amplify petty postives, which aren't always a bad thing but are part of this whole delusion which I dislike. This delusion has reached a new extreme with sites like www.aspiesforfreedom.com which is about "celebrating as & autism". I say wtf?
The self-realisation that one has this weakness is in itself a psychologically debilitating effect, and it seems I'm experiencing it more than others. In this world, one can argue that communication with other people matters more than anything else in our quest to satisifying our base instincts, which are namely for more power, and our sexual drive (according ot many theories on philosophy of the mind). If that is seriously impaired because of our condition then is it a surprise that aspies are more likely to get depressed more often etc etc.
Escapism- a chance to retreat from unpleasant realities through diversion or fantasy, practised in activites like programming and video games etc used to provide a lasting pleasurable experience, but having grown more aware of the world we live in, more mature, i just don't enjoy them anymore.
It just feels like aspies (or any other people with serious weaknesses) are destined to suffer. Or maybe it's just those aspies who realise what their condition means in this evil world.

Last edited by MrPink on 05 Nov 2004, 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The Site!!

Well, it's all a matter of perception. And it's all a matter of how you use the strengths that you have. It's a matter of taking the cards you're dealt and making the most out of them.

For some it's a gift, for some it's a curse, but for most of us, it's both.

I'm with you on not understanding "celebrating" AS and autism, as if it's some joyous wonderful thing, HOWEVER, I also take considerable offense to those who have this idea that AS is something that should never exist, etc, that it's some horrible evil bad thing.

It's the Darwinian world around us that has allowed us to survive today. People who supposedly have had AS or similar disorders have made great contributions to society. And I think that there's a role for all of us to play in society somewhere or at least a way for us to be happy.

AS (and many other conditions) can make a person different. Not necessarily better, not necessarily worse, but different. A lot of us think in different ways than "normal" people. And sometimes it takes someone who can think a little differently or see things in a different light to solve problems in the world.

So I don't think that by virture of having AS we're destined to a life of misery...but I feel that way many times. At the moment I'm feeling kind of discouraged because it seems like girls have very little tolerance for aspie traits and expect some sort of super polished, scripted, perfect performance in every social interaction...ugh...but still....don't lose hope, I guess.

Considering that I have Asperger's syndrome and cannot change that fact, I might as well focus on the positives because dwelling on what's wrong with me is going to accomplish precisely nothing. This syndrome has not taken with it my ability to learn, my sense of compassion, or my creativity; so I actually have a lot to be happy about.

Almost every sign of Asperger's syndrome can be flipped around and perceived as a positive, especially if you make the effort to compensate for your weaknesses with your strengths. We aren't gullible and naive; we're kind and honest. We're not aloof and obsessed with odd things; we're focused and knowledgeable.

Please, my fellow aspies, ignore MrPink's troll and make Asperger's syndrome what it can be for you!

Mr Pink, if you were talking about race/gender, you would have what is called 'internalized racism/post-colonialist syndrome'. That's when colonized minorities think that the Europeans are better than them just because they are the ones in power. It's all about the straight, white, male, NT power structure. It's just another facet of that oppression. As of right now, we Autistics do not have much power. That does not mean that we are better or worse than anybody. It just means that the dominant paradigm has no space for us. That is why, like the Black Power movement of the '70s, we need to learn to accept ourSELVES and find strength in our own identity.
We can flip the crap around and say that NTism is a 'debilitating condition' because it prevents people from thinking logically.

I have a split mind.
(Well, not in the literal, ACTUAL sense...)

When I am alone, I feel quite comfortable with myself and the way that I am. I feel like... I can devote myself to the "higher things" that most other people take for granted... and that while I might not have very many individual, personal relationships- I have a deeper relationship with humanity as a whole. I can appreciate things that other people cannot appreciate, and somehow benifit society on this "higher level". And intellectually, this is a more fulfilling path.

But.
Other times, I desperately long for that intimate connectiveness of human contact. I sit on streetcorner benches, and I observe how happy and carefree people seem to be together, and I want to be one of those people. I want to be passionately involved with life on a personal level.
Every person is a NEW UNIVERSE. The diversity of people is...absolutely amazing. You can read a million books about people... but that will never compare to the reality of living life itself.
But this is very difficult for me to do. And when I can't easily accomplish this... I do feel as though something is wrong with me.
It's not a feeling that I should have to CHANGE... it is just a feeling of hopeless desperation.

But.
I do not think it is wrong to want both. Its good to accept your limitations... but you shouldnt just separate yourself from life, and the rest of humanity, because you are different. I think, that will only make you resentful...and actually MORE aware of your alienation.
All humanity suffers... if its not the lack of human contact, it is the lack of money, recognition, time, etc.... its just one excuse for not being happy.
There is always something that people blame on a lack of happiness.

The important part....is to find a BALANCE... and realize that despite your differences/difficulties/weakness ...there are always ways around them... and possibilities of a different future, if you are looking for one.

yesssss, mysticaria!

sometimes it's great, sometimes it's pants. sometimes, it just is.

and that's being an aspie/NT, a woman/man, a 42/10 year old, white/black, straight/gay, single/married, no kids/kids.....etc, etc. i think the point is made.

i hope i am "using" my AS for my benefit - in my studying, in my job, in my lifestyle. but i too sit on mysticaria's bench and wonder at the mystery of all those people who have friends, or even (astonishment) partners. and, from the posts here and elsewhere, i'm not alone in this feeling.

it IS a matter of balance. and, as is the case with so many things, it's a dynamic balance - 50-50 all the time gives you a straight line, and flat line = dead.

celebrate the positives, be pragmatic about the negatives (you can accept them without having to like them). only through acceptance can the energy be released to manage them, or adapt to them - if you fight against negatives, think of all the energy you're using fighting yourself.

let's just not go too far in either direction, all the time. BUT, let's allow everyone to deal with it in their own way.

V

So you can recognise some trolls then Neanthumain? They are a diverse breed but this one is particularly persistent; I strongly recommend you all resist any requests for PM communication from this example!

While I don't agree entirely with Mr. Pink, I do think he brings up some valid points. I have never been in agreement with those who say that Asperger's is not an impairment, because frankly, it is. In our world today we are expected to interact socially, whether we like it or not. The things which seem illogical to us (social ladders, etc) are a natural way of being for the majority. We are the minority, unfortunately. Yes, if we were running the world, those who value social games would be seen as dishonest, manipulative, and unwholesome, but I think we need to accept the fact that we are not the ones who are running the world, and then get over it.

There are many positive sides to AS, as well. Like mysticaria and vetivert, I too switch between valueing the positive aspects of AS and ruminating over the negatives. Given the chance, however, I do not think I would want to become NT. I do not consider myself an "invalid," as this thread topic suggests, though I do accept the fact that I have difficulties in areas where most people do not. I also have strengths in areas where many people do not. I am what I am, and I accept that for both the good and the bad aspects.

How do you know that this is a troll, NeantHumain? Do you have any advice on how to spot them?

Here you go, tons of links to guides on 'trolls':

http://www.themartialist.com/pecom/fiel ... trolls.htm
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
http://www.fact-index.com/i/in/internet_troll.html
http://www.io.com/~zikzak/troll_thesis.html

LOL That is just a start of places to learn about the 'internet trolling' phenomena.

And yes I learned all this from dealing with 'trolls' on parenting forums not only as a board "host" (moderator) but as a chat room host as well as on IRC. LOL I've seen some really good ones over 10 yrs.

This last link is hilarious!

Yeah I found it rather amusing myself.

It may be "natural" for the majority, but the majority of those are only following the lead of those at the top, who are no more typical than we are! In any case, acknowledging disadvantages (whether these should properly be seen as attributes of AS is another issue; the DSM method is suspicious in this regard, and rumour has it the designation will in any case be ruled out in the next version) is one thing, reinforcing them is quiite another. Take a positive view and the disasadvantages become less so; focus on them and it can only lead to depression. Do you wish for more depression Civet? This is one of the things Mr. Pink and his kind are trying to promote.

Of course a troll would include some reasonable sounding arguments (who'd take them seriously otherwise?) but look at the big picture, he also mentions "our" desire for power; are you driven to seek control over others and determine their ways of life? The minority who rule us are motivated by nothing more than that, and understand no other motivation (which is why they look down in such contempt at us "failures"; they assume we just aren't good enough to achieve the things we crave, they cannot concieve of any able thinker not striving to dominate others) so if anyone makes a vitue of such ideals, you can be pretty sure you are not dealing with an Aspie nor autie.

It's sick, I know, but if you don't want to be continually manouvered and abused by such people you'll have to try and be less trusting. Anyone can disagree, but if soemone tries to make virutes of fundamental drives which you don't share, then the likelyhood is they are not of your kind (by any definition).

To tell you the truth, I would trade my AS for a normal life. I hate saying it, but it's forcing me to drop out of school this summer, right before my Senior year. I can't blame it all on the syndrome, but I do not want to take another year of being miserable because I can't do the simple things that most people can. I will get my GED, for sure.

I would never say my life sucks or that it is hard. Yet, dealing with these conditions is very hard for me. I'm sticking up for my decision. I feel that it's going to make my life even miserable. I need the time to find myself. I feel that going to school another year is simply another chance to push myself to the edge and I don't want to risk it.

I'm never going to be happy with how I act socially, yet it's my strongest desire. I know, in my heart, I've done everything I could.

I understand well how you feel. I've always felt like the jigsaw puzzle piece that doesn't fit. People calling you ret*d daily rather reinforce this. In the two years since my diagnosis; I've come to the conclusion I would not cure myself if I could. I feel it would affect who I am too much. There are positive aspects to AS; and AS gives you a very different perspective on life from NT people.

I used to feel that way. I don't anymore. I refuse to feel useless. I've started to combat these feelings by finding as many things to keep myself busy as I can. I also focus on the things that I'm good at and do them. I used to have people tell me all kinds of derogitory things about me. Now I just take that comment with a grain of salt, and show those people what I'm made of, but in a civilized way, through Art or Writing.