TYPES of ASD individuals from a professional source

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I think I have WISC qualities and SASC qualities.

I want to point out here (WRT this scale being all-inclusive) that I believe this scale is meant to address ONLY Aspergers, PDD-NOS and HFA as well as ADHD social issues. I do not believe the authors meant to cover all autism spectrum people in this nor do I believe they work with all manners of autism spectrum people. I think they probably only work with the more "functioning" ones from their other work. (Specifically stating those who do not require a lot of services to perform daily tasks)

I think they state this on the first page when they set up the intro as they only really refer to Aspergers, PDD-NOS, HFA and ADHD in their setup.

My guess is that the scale posted by anbeund is probably more appropriate for the levels of ASD individuals who require more serious services for daily types of tasks and functions.

Whew... This thread got "hot". I'll have to catch up tonight when I am not at work. LOL!

If it was only for "high functioning" people, then why would they include categories for those who are severely affected? The most severe category said that the person might be nonverbal or barely verbal.. And the one that anbuend posted seems like it could be useful for any functioning level. I'd say that i'm pretty high functioning(not as much a few people on here, but still way up there when you look at the whole spectrum), and i think that having a different classification for each thing is easier than seeing which big category i fit into. I think i got mostly 3s.

And i like that anbuend brought up that "anti cure" isn't just autism, but applied to other disabilities too. I remember seeing something about a lot of deaf people having similar attitudes about it as "anti cure" autistics do... Not wanting a "cure," because they like themselves the way they are. Autism and deafness are both disabilities for sure, they both mean that the person is going to be impaired in doing different things or have to go about certain things differently than "normal" people... But that doesn't mean that that different way of being is a bad thing. Just different. The thing is that it's OKAY that neither we, as autistic people, nor deaf people(or people with any other disability) function the same way as what is considered "normal." Time and money could be better spent helping people with disabilities function better in the world than doing things that send a message that we need to be just like everyone else. If people want to use treatments for specific symptoms associated with their disability that they don't like then okay, but there's nothing wrong with having a disability.

There's a movie called "at first sight" that i watched the other day that was interesting(based on a true story)... The guy is blind and the way he understands the world is based on sound and touch, that's what he's used to. He's comfortable with the way he is, because he's been this way since he was very young. Then he gets pressured into a surgery that lets him see again, and he is overwhelmed by all of this visual information coming in that he can't make any sense of. He still doesn't function like a regular seeing person. As the movie goes on he starts getting used to it and can make more sense of things, but then his vision starts to leave. When his vision goes he doesn't go through more surgery, he just stays blind because he's perfectly fine that way. I thought it was a good movie, because i saw the blind person as someone with any disability(including autism) being fine how he/she is. Plus, suddenly processing social information differently would probably freak us out just as much as it freaked him out to suddenly see. I mean, having a new ability that you aren't used to, because your whole ability to function is based on something else, and can't make much sense of would just be another kind of disability.

WISC (introvert subtype).

Yes it does include the "low functioning" in the scales, but it feels like it doesn't really "hit it" with the people who are in those classes as well as the A-SHELL one seems to. Likewise the A-SHELL one is less preferred by people who are 1-2 mostly. I guess I am thinking that this scale appeals more to the "higher functioning" than the other one. This makes some sort of sense as the clinic that put this out seems to deal primarily with the verbal and more functioning folks. At least that is what I think I read...

I should clarify that my opinion had already been established before I came here, so I hadn't been exposed to these hierarchical arguments until the past few months. It still surprises me when I see someone trying to propose that AS isn't really on the spectrum at all and that it is an entirely different condition, or anyone arguing that anything that applies to them must necessarily not apply to those who aren't "high functioning," or applying assumptions about functioning levels and intelligence, communication abilities, valuing particular kinds of communication over other kinds of communication. That is, I agree with what you're saying, and participation here has been quite an eye opener.



Yes, this all makes sense. I have seen anti-cure discussions outside of autism, although because this is an autistic forum they tend not to come explicitly to mind here because of the way I handle context and the way cure is broached.



Much of what I have read has been on blogs. I came here already having a foundation of knowledge about autism and the autistic community. I'd read most of Jim Sinclair's site (I don't recall if the site still existed outside of the internet archive at the time - this was in 2008), ANI's history, your blog, blogs linked from your blog, information and alerts Ari Ne'eman posted to a (disability, not specifically autism-related) mailing list I have been on for a couple of years(although that list is inactive now, and it wasn't really discussion).

And in that context, I again agree with you about what this forum tends to be like. There are several people who post here regularly whose posts I love to read, but there are a lot of people I find somewhat disturbing with the attitudes they express about autism, about disability, about functioning levels, about cure or opposing cures (I don't mean that if someone is pro-cure I automatically dislike or disagree with them or if they're anti-cure that I automatically like or agree with them, rather the arguments they post infleunce my reactions - someone whose anti-cure stance is basically AS supremacy is not someone I expect to agree with).



I think my brain demands neatly fitting into one category, but I have traits in multiple categories. I guess I can live with that, as these are unlikely to be used anywhere near me as part of any diagnoses I receive, and I am not sure they say all that much about how well I function in various contexts.

Thanks, kfisherx, that was a really interesting read. Also, thank to anbuend for providing the bullet point list.

I'd say, I am a WISC too, just on the verge of normal but once you get to know them, as odd as they can be.

You know, I was very surprised to see in print exactly the way I feel about social interactions 'After the interaction they will recognise that they have been rejected or are being treated poorly by their peers'. I thought it was my guilty secret only

Also, some ESC traits, namely:
Struggle to relate to peers of their own age without facilitation. Seek out interactions with adults.
Ehm, I have always sought out adults to interact with. Typically peers would be contacted as a second choice.
Show perseveration in thoughts or interests; may have unusual interests compared to their age matched peers. Given their intense interests, they may develop strong specific skills related to their areas of interest.
Many are described as have auditory processing deficits or central auditory processing deficits.
Still can't follow information that is being read to me or verbal instructions (must see it written down) and that specific issue with missing people's names when they are spoken to me (while I am never likely to forget a name I've seen written or in print)
Some ESCS do learn to attend to the teacher in a classroom, especially when sitting in front of the classroom.
Um, I always sit in the front but I thought that was because I was short-sighted. Now I think about it, I'd always prefer sitting in the front, makes me focus better.
Most are highly disorganised and tend to over-focus on details
Well I am organised enough but that came through lots of hard work. Preoccupation with detail still persists.
Many struggle to summarise their thoughts or write summary-based information.
Can't give a verbal summary but I write summaries on a daily basis, that's a significant part of my work.
With regards to anxiety, most ECS experience anxiety tied to the imperfections of how the world actually works compared to the way they think the world should work. Many struggle with transitions (…). They may become easily confused in dynamic social environments (…).
Yep, yep and yep again.
Early in development, this group is often able to impress others with their ability to learn basic academics with relatively little guidance.
They also tend to be far more naïve than their peer group, not anticipating others' motives.

Now I wonder, why is the WISC classified the most intelligent of all and most capable of academic achievement? Surely this isn't the most important criterion?

And another question, do these groups ever transition into one another, I wonder? Because sometimes, when I am very stressed out, I might be a real RSC. Thankfully, it has happened only occasioonally over the years.

Last edited by Severus on 25 Mar 2011, 6:33 pm, edited 3 times in total.

I hardly read any of that, but I'm thinking that I'm 40% SCSC, 30% ESC, 20% WISC, with 10% uncertainty. Actually, my uncertainty is probably much higher than that.

I would say both ESC and NCSC (WISC as a kid, evolved to SASC).

I'm not obviously different. It's been my experience that a lot of people distance themselves from me the more they get to know me. I think it becomes more apparent over time that there's something "off" and that it's more disturbing to them that it wasn't apparent immediately. Maybe it's related to the "uncanny valley" hypothesis.

You're welcome. I wasn't trying to toot my horn but rather to demonstrate that I did not just magically one day wake up a millionare in one of the most "Aspie-accepting" cities in the world as was implied. The work that it took for me to be where I am is a sort of work that I see very few people willing to do ever. I wanted to share that I have had to climb a fair number of mountatins already and my intentions are to climb the ASD one before me as well.

Yep... that is the "curse" of the WISC/SASC type people according to the paper. Too close to NT for them to see that there is a disability but they do feel that something is "off". ESC types will get cut more of a break because a disability is more obvious as a disability.... At least that is how I read it.

Oh, another interesting thing to me about SASC. In this particular thing, they lump that in with WISC as merely "nuance-challenged" instead of something else.

But I have known people who are viewed as low functioning autistic, whose main problem was severe, unrelenting anxiety. Anxiety so severe they could not connect to their body well enough to use their hands or mouth in typical (or even close to typical) ways. Anxiety so severe they were afraid of showing any emotion, any connection to any human being, etc. Who couldn't take any break from the anxiety even around the people they were closest to. Whose constant stimming was actually also a reaction to the anxiety, where the stimming was like the armor they wore out in public so they wouldn't have to show their true selves to anyone. Anxiety so severe they were afraid of showing a single bit of their true desires, comprehension, or emotions, and so they did not communicate except in an indirect, evasive manner.

So SASC seems like another thing that instead of putting it into the main line of different types (under NCSC), I would put it off to the side, much as RSC is put off to the side. Because social anxiety can cause problems that appear to range from incredibly severe (to the point where most people are sure the person's anxiety-induced issues are severe neurological issues) to incredibly mild. They just didn't seem aware of how many aspects of a person's life that kind of anxiety can affect.

Ouch.

That made for some depressing reading.
Teaching people about learning how to "lie" and to follow "group think".
I am very sorry, but I found this upsetting to read.
That children are somehow "deficient" for being independent minded.
It's almost as if people value social manipulation over honesty and practical skills.
But then that doesn't really surprise me...

These 2 quotes describe my life to some significant degree:

"Individuals within this profile often do best academically in the early years of school when their attention to detail makes them strong rote learners. However, they can excel as they age in the areas related to their interests. Some higher level or solid ESCs can become wonderful students as they are devoted to following routines, which include studying. If born to a temperament or encouraged to develop a pattern of engaging in hard work and tenacity, the individual may become quite successful at meeting academic course requirements, even if unable to fully understand the work. There are many high level adult ESCs who live most of their life achieving different university degrees. They may be good at studying information but not as able to apply it outside the classroom and, when unable to find employment, they return to the university to seek another degree. This subgroup of ESCs can excel at learning in a structured environment."

"When in peer-­‐based social situations, they may be more focused on surviving the moment by focusing on their own thoughts and expression of their own ideas than in thinking about how people are thinking about them in that moment."

Thanks for the article. It's very interesting.

I seem to be pretty much a WISC, although I relate to ESC in many ways too.

I think this article describes perfectly the predicament of being a WISC, functioning poorly enough to stand out as different and being constantly rejected and bullied by peers, but functioning too well to get any help or understanding.

Same here. At first I appear pretty normal to people, but once they start spending some time with me/around me they start to notice that there is something "off" about me, that I'm different in some way that they can't really make sense of, and this seems to freak them out. It becomes obvious to them that I'm different, but they don't recognize that it's because of a disability, so they get nervous, puzzled or annoyed and react by avoiding me, excluding me or bullying me.