Defeatism, or "Learned Helplessness".

Page 8 of 10 [ 154 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 Next

Previous topic | Next topic

Edna3362
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,362
Location: ᜆᜄᜎᜓᜄ᜔

12 Dec 2019, 8:07 am

kraftiekortie wrote:

There is a definite neurological basis to autism.

This is true in the area of “executive dysfunction.”

Yes. It does exists.

Me with an EF still has a form of executive dysfunction; mainly still no sensory filters and no self-regulating sensory/emotional intensity, verbal and nonverbal intelligence gap still exists, movement is still just as 'manual'..
Any inclination towards an individual autistic behaviors, modes, and pattern of thinking -- is still there.
It doesn't look or feel like a 'dysfunction' because of having enough resources for greater compensation and 'control' over whatever deficits -- something I was not able to do for quite a long time, definitely without enough resources.

_________________

Gained Number Post Count (1).
Lose Time (ⁿ).

^{Lose more time here - Updates at least once a week.}

Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,939
Location:

12 Dec 2019, 9:05 am

kraftiekortie wrote:

There is a definite neurological basis to autism. This is true in the area of "executive dysfunction".

Link, please?

kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

12 Dec 2019, 9:10 am

The “links” are all over.

The evidence is clearly seen in many people with autism.

Many have trouble speaking because of apraxia—not because they are not intellectually capable of speaking.

It’s a neurological and developmental disorder; that is virtually universally accepted. That determination is placed within virtually every study pertaining to autism.

Last edited by kraftiekortie on 12 Dec 2019, 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

12 Dec 2019, 9:12 am

The neurological manifestations can lead to executive dysfunction.

Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,939
Location:

12 Dec 2019, 9:22 am

kraftiekortie wrote:

The “links” are all over.

Then it should be easy for you to locate and present them.

kraftiekortie wrote:

The evidence is clearly seen in many people with autism.

What evidence, exactly? Why is it evident? To whom is it evident? Links, please?

kraftiekortie wrote:

Many have trouble speaking because of apraxia — not because they are not intellectually capable of speaking.

Non-Sequitur (It does not follow).

kraftiekortie wrote:

It’s a neurological and developmental disorder; that is virtually universally accepted. That determination is placed within virtually every study pertaining to autism.

That is an "assumption", not a "determination".

kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

12 Dec 2019, 9:37 am

So....you don't believe autism is a neurological and developmental disorder?

Just walk into any class with (especially) severely autistic students. You'll see the neurological manifestations all over the place.

I don't need to post links. My observations are satisfactory to me. I'm not a research scientist.

I have read many studies. Almost all say that autism is a "developmental" disorder." Almost all say that it is a "neurological" disorder. Almost always, it is stated in the abstract of the study.

Last edited by kraftiekortie on 12 Dec 2019, 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

smudge
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 Sep 2006
Age: 37
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,716
Location: Moved on

12 Dec 2019, 9:43 am

Edna3362 wrote:

smudge wrote:

^ What you say sounds interesting, but do you have evidence for it?

I only have personal observations so far, along with varying witnesses of said changes. The contrast is also externally visible as it is internally.
And I'd also like other accounts similar to this.

Whenever I wake up with a working EF, the main similarities I've observed so far is some form of deep sleep. It's seemingly uncommon and random.
Anything else -- diet, activity, exposures, reproductive cycles, external situations, emotions or moods -- seems to be ignored though...
The sleep at those nights are different; it's like I slept much deeper and seemingly sense lost time completely as opposed to just 'lost time' in the dark.
The sensation of having to sleep like forever... When it's only few hours. This is not my 'usual' sleep.
And waking up energized, aware (not absentminded nor vigilant)... No shortness of breath, no headaches, no 'heavy' feeling, no 'stress'... This is not my 'usual' awaking.

So yes, my own point so far is just constant non restorative sleep -- possibly a form of insomnia. Sleep disorders are common within the spectrum.

And I possibly just got a taste of that 'vital' ingredient... 3 hours gave me a whole day, 8 hours gave me a week.

Maybe in your case, it means you need to have enough energy for EF to function well. Personally, aside from when I was a baby and constantly screamed all the time (Yep, you lot with sensitive hearing would've hated me :twisted:

and/or blamed my mother. Pfffft.), so much so the babysitter had to hand me back and I couldn't sleep...I've almost never had trouble with sleeping since. So, that rules me out.

Otherwise, for me it's the bigger anxieties there are in the background, the worse EF gets.

_________________
I've left WP.

kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

12 Dec 2019, 9:47 am

Many autistic people have difficulty speaking because they have a disorder in "motor planning." This involves the muscles of speech.

Saying that some autistic people have difficulty in speaking because of apraxia, and not because of intellectual incapability, is not a "non-sequitor."

Ezra could probably fill you in about his apraxia.

skibum
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jul 2013
Age: 58
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,494
Location: my own little world

12 Dec 2019, 9:52 am

I think my EF is affected a lot by different factors. Fatigue, loss of energy, anxiety, and neurological assault all play a roll for me.

_________________
"I'm bad and that's good. I'll never be good and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me."

Wreck It Ralph

kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

12 Dec 2019, 9:57 am

There are some autistic people who don't have difficulty in "executive function" at all.

kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

12 Dec 2019, 10:14 am

Autism is a complex neurobehavioral condition that includes impairments in social interaction and developmental language and communication skills combined with rigid, repetitive behaviors. Because of the range of symptoms, this condition is now called autism spectrum disorder (ASD). It covers a large spectrum of symptoms, skills, and levels of impairment. ASD ranges in severity from a handicap that somewhat limits an otherwise normal life to a devastating disability that may require institutional care.

From: Autism WebMD Medical Reference

This definition, with slight variations, is contained within the abstract of most, if not all, of studies pertaining to autism.

skibum
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jul 2013
Age: 58
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,494
Location: my own little world

12 Dec 2019, 10:15 am

My guess is that the kind of Autistics that do not have EF issues are the kind of Autistics who are able to successfully keep jobs.

_________________
"I'm bad and that's good. I'll never be good and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me."

Wreck It Ralph

kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

12 Dec 2019, 10:17 am

I have "executive functioning difficulties," yet I still keep a job.

Though I have never been promoted, despite having great knowledge of my job.

It is thought that I don't have "leadership ability."

The ability to be a "leader" is a hallmark of somebody with excellent "executive function."

magz
Forum Moderator

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

12 Dec 2019, 10:32 am

Executive disfunction is something completely different from learned helplessness.
Executive disfunction is an inability to... do things the right way. When I put crayons into a dishwasher and flour to a fridge, when I don't notice green light and a train leaves before I realize I should have boarded it - that I interpret as executive disfunction. It gets much worse with sleep deprivation.
Learned helplessness is being very unhappy with one's situation not even trying to change it.

Completely different phenomenons.

_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>

kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

12 Dec 2019, 10:33 am

Absolutely true. They are not related directly.

Though, indirectly, "executive dysfunction" could lead to a sense of "defeatism."

Then again, many things could lead to a sense of "defeatism."

magz
Forum Moderator

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

12 Dec 2019, 10:41 am

kraftiekortie wrote:

Though, indirectly, "executive dysfunction" could lead to a sense of "defeatism."

I suppose any disability can.
Denying disability won't help improve attitude.

_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>

Page 8 of 10 [ 154 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 Next

Jump to:

Defeatism, or "Learned Helplessness". Post Reply New Topic

Defeatism, or "Learned Helplessness".