The Neanderthal theory of Autism

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Oh really? What experience is that? It is estimated that as many as 80% of people with AS have NVLD.

NVLD actually refers to learning problem in areas NOT verbal (in other word they are very vocal in theory). Confusing I know. However it is very misleading because NVLD is not a behaviour diagnosis, it is not assessing social understanding etc more how they don't learn. it is from a completely different background. In fact they just found a different 'part of the elephant in the dark'.

@rdos I think the association you made about LFA is a convenient after thought. It was always pretty likely that ASD wouldn't have a single gene. I mean there are more genes for a sponge than there are in the human genome. I don't see how this gets you any closer to making a connection with Neanderthals.

Yes, I already told you that many Aspies have problems with nonverbal communication with NTs. As for how we Aspies understand each others, there is of course no research because it is not a popular idea among autism researchers that the problems with nonverbal communication are specific and are only valid in relation to NTs.

So where does this theory account for the nearly constant stream of miscommunication occurring here on WP?

Yeah but the author Jean M. Auel did a lot of research and is a member of Mensa. She visited prehistoric sites in France, Austria, Czechoslovakia, the Ukraine, the Soviet Union, Hungary, and Germany. She isn't exactly a dilettante. I think her potrayals of Neanderthals could be realistic, but no one really knows for sure.

I dunno about other Aspies but according to several posts on this forum, Aspies can have difficulties connecting with other Aspies. I have difficulty connecting with anyone, NT or ASD. I'm not entirely convinced it's due to Hn but I will tell you many of my ancestors come from the general area of those prehistoric sites that Auel visited. Very spooky coincidence but it could be just that - a coincidence. Since we don't know how Hn communicated we cannot be sure if HFA/AS communicate in much the same manner.




Well, that's true and happens. The alleles become more dysfunctional in greater number until the halpotype becomes so distorted it cannot promote the survival of the species. This is how the affected alleles become extinct thru natural selection. Maybe the "fixation" alleles have a role in shutting down the unstable ones so that mutations can occur since this is necessary for a species survival over time?

This sounds like scientific solipsism.

As an idea, it is pretty creative.For a theory or evidence, it is pure non sense.

Isn't autism a theory itself?

This is not IRL. This is a Internet forum, where nonverbal communication cannot be transmitted.

Yes, I know that Auel did research before her books, but the problem is that she only had "bones" and scarce archeological evidence, I also have the wealth of information of now living Aspies.



I do not doubt that. Not all Aspies have the typical Aspie communication traits. We all have different things from Hn, which makes us a mixed bunch.



That's right. But differences in communcation need to have some origin. The don't just appear within a species for no apparent reason.

All of which are influenced strongly by non-evolutionary factors, such as social attitudes.

I am not arguing that there have never been social reasons for abandoning children, nor that children different or otherwise have never been abandoned. The subject matter of my comments was evolutionary benefit/cost, and in terms of evolutionary benefit/cost, all other things being equal, whether a child resembles a parent or not, they still carry half their parent's genetic material. From an evolutionary perspective, only if the child itself has reduced reproductive potential, or disproportionately threatens the reproductive potential of multiple siblings, or disproportionately threatens the reproductive potential of a more heavily invested in sibling, or requires disproportionate resources, does it make evolutionary sense to get rid of it.

No they do not. In one instance I am aware of, a chimpanzee was observed to carry and attempt to nurse her dead infant's corpse for a period of time after it died. Clearly something was not right with that offspring.


That's irrelevant to this particular issue because I have not, nor would I argue that it never makes evolutionary sense to abandon off-spring, nor that only what makes evolutionary sense happens. I simply commented that having offspring that are significantly different in physical appearance, does necessarily result in it making evolutionary sense to abandon or otherwise be rid of the off-spring.

That's not my experience. My non AS sister better understands her HFA son than anyone; my AS relatives are no better at understanding my mode of expression than my non AS relatives.

Linked to what? How do you imagine we know they are linked to (?) when we do not even know what these alleles are, how many are involved or which chromosomes might be implicated?

This is true.

Not really, its more a conceptual category, like "cancer" or "building" in that it associates things based on particular shared features, without actually claiming any commonality beyond the classificatory features.

Competencies need origins, lack of competency needs no more than the absence or dysfunction of one or more things necessary to the competency.

Last edited by pandd on 27 May 2009, 6:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

What if scientists somehow ressurected Neanderthals by cloning them and made a Neanderthal themed park like the one in Jurassic and you were able to observe them interacting and living together in a society and they behaved nothing like the Aspies you know now. What would you think then?

Would you blame the scientists and say they aren't acting like Aspies because of a glitch in the cloning process?

This is going to sound bad but I get the feeling Cro Magnon might have looked down on Neanderthal and thought of them as some kind of sub human, might even be the origins of European turf wars? Maybe this is what started that way of thinking, originally? I have a hard time believing Cro Magnon would voluntarily breed with Neanderthals.

You do raise a lot of interesting questions concerning the relationship between Cro Magnon and Neanderthals. Something tells me they didn't get along too well.

If you saw them, chances are you would be comparing them more to species of apes, perhaps chimpanzees. I think of them being a bit wilder than Cro magnon.

Crossbreeding did take place BBC NEWS ARTICLE

thanks for posting the article! I love this theory. the thing about asperger is that there are deficits but there are also extra abilities. I just don't think it's only a disorder.

Crossbreeding between species is one thing; it's another thing to say that this is evidence that it causes autism.

On the surface it looks plausible but once you delve a bit, the hypothesis stops making sense in a hurry.

if there is an evolutionary component to autism, it probably lies somewhere between this idea and Andrew Lehman's hypothesis about neoteny.

in regard to asperger it just seems that it would make sense, I have sensed all my life that I was programmed for a different place than this...

I feel more like I am mostly unprogramed and living amongst beings who are fully or much more comprehensively programed for this time and place.

Do you have a link for this theory I'd like to hear about it.