This video is just disgraceful to the autistic community.

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Yes, society does take into consideration why and how an event may occur. And a child murdered because of a disability is not seen as tragic because the disability makes their life less worth living. That is, disability is already seen as making a child's life tragic, and murder is sometimes seen as a kindness.

You don't seem to be all that familiar with reactions to parents murdering their disabled children, I think. Or you agree with those reactions, in which case I admit that I would be horrified to hear that.

I linked a couple of blog posts that talk about the sympathy for these particular murderers you find all over the media and from other people. TheyGoMew has been linking news stories to show how it actually plays out. The information is there. Parents who accidentally kill their children sometimes get the public baying for their blood. Parents who deliberately with premeditation kill their disabled children receive sympathy while their children are tokenized and probably forgotten. Everything is framed in terms of how hard it must have been for those poor parents who were driven to an act of cold-blooded murder.

It all makes perfect sense in context, though: Society, as a whole, doesn't really care about disability. They'd like us to go away and not bother them. I have known people who run disability-focused blogs to talk about their own disabilities and their own problems to permanently turn on comment moderation because people would drop in and tell them to kill themselves. I have run into debates on video game forums (of all places) about whether it's appropriate to just let disabled people die rather than take care of them, and these debates are never locked by the moderators, despite the fact it is on the publisher's official forum (one place this happened was in the official World of Warcraft forum).

I don't have sympathy for those parents. I never will. I don't care how hard they had it, murder is a choice.

Also, your comparison to taking care of disabled eldery parents or grandparents is really hitting me the wrong way. I am not sure why at this point, but I should mentioned I assisted in caring for both my maternal grandfather and maternal grandmother when they were unable to care for themselves and hadn't yet been hospitalized. It wasn't easy, but I don't recall ever wishing I could put them in a car and drive off the bridge.

I agree, but I don't think that's what she said. She related a thought that went through her head at one time. A thought she never acted on. Though I don't believe everyone has thoughts like that, I do believe most of us do at one time or another, whether is self destructive or thoughts of doing harm to others. It's a natural human thing that can happen to anyone. The thing that's important is that the vast majority of us never act on them, as she didn't.

The real issue the OP brought up is whether or not is was appropriate to talk about the thought in front of her child. It may have seemed a poor choice to do so, but she may have been faced with the choice of never speaking of it to anyone (which is quite a burden to bear), or speaking about it in the child's presence. If you listen to everything each of them is saying, they are pretty clear about the fact that they are never apart from their children. I know with my own kids, who are much higher functioning, we could never, ever leave them alone even for just a few minutes.

I'm not too worried about people that admit to having thoughts like that, and choose to put it out in the open instead. It's the ones that have those thoughts but never tell anyone about them that I'm worried about.

In front of her child, on camera at all. It's best saved for therapy or privacy.

You don't seem to be all that familiar with reactions to parents murdering their disabled children, I think. Or you agree with those reactions, in which case I admit that I would be horrified to hear that.


It's not an either or proposition, it's not black and white. What I'm trying to convey, is that there is an unspoken understanding between NT's that life can be so difficult in taking care of a disabled child or elderly parent that it can drive one to the brink of destruction. As a consequence, there is sympathy conveyed toward the parent and child. These are nuances that you and others are missing in this discussion. IF you were to fill a room with parents(in a similar situation) having heard news of this type of tragedy, one would be able to catch the locking of eyes, the tears, and the unspoken silence between those who don't condone the action BUT have understanding as well as compassion.

TheSunAlsoRises

It all makes perfect sense in context, though: Society, as a whole, doesn't really care about disability. They'd like us to go away and not bother them.

NT's are human-beings with strengths and weaknesses. There is nothing superhuman about being an NT. There are many in society who care about the disabled and there are many in society who care about the caregivers of the disabled. Once again, i don't condone the killing of children, period. However, I'm able to step back, hate that act and yet recognize the unspoken.

TheSunAlsoRises

I know all of this. It's just...it's not right that in order to get any help for your autism you need to be physically showing that you're severely disabled by it. As you were saying, the funds go to those who appear to be affected most by their disability (or disabilities). I wish that there were a way for everyone who has autism to get the help they need (if they want help).

Also, your comparison to taking care of disabled eldery parents or grandparents is really hitting me the wrong way.


I am not sure why at this point, but I should mentioned I assisted in caring for both my maternal grandfather and maternal grandmother when they were unable to care for themselves and hadn't yet been hospitalized. It wasn't easy, but I don't recall ever wishing I could put them in a car and drive off the bridge.[/quote]

You know, why it's hitting you the wrong way ? It's your personal experience and you have lived IT. So, no amount of newspaper links will ever be able to convey the full breath of your personal experience. You don't have to speculate. You don't have to analyze it from an outsiders perspective. It's your reality, you own IT.

Sound familiar ??


TheSunAlsoRises

It's going to happen. Don't worry.

TheSunAlsoRises

There's a saying on online forums amongst my NT chums:

Old hat.

This video is from a time Autism Speaks were in their infancy and they're nothing like that today. While I don't agree with their scare campaigns they did address an issue that is very true, in the most negative way possible.

This is why I said I didn't think you fully understood. People do condone the murders and they do want the parents to go free. And many parents do go free, or with a light slap on the wrist. Why? Because disabled lives are not considered valuable.



I don't recall ever saying that NTs aren't human or that they are superhuman or that they lack weaknesses. I do care about caregivers, I have been a caregiver. I do care about parents with disabled children. But I do not care for the fact that people are so quick to forgive and understand the reasons for premeditated murder. I cannot cross that bridge, and I am not going to try.

I have in the past found news stories for comparison: A woman who accidentally left her child in the car to die from the heat and the way people were literally calling for her blood. This happened in Washington D.C. and people wanted her tried for murder, and I believe she was tried for murder. And she was characterized as a vicious unfeeling monster, even though the truth of the matter is she made a mistake that everyone makes in their lives, a stupid, pointless, all too easy mistake to make - she forgot to do something and didn't even remember she forgot to do it (drop her child off for day care, I believe). I

On the other hand, parents who deliberately, with premeditation, and in full possession of their faculties who choose to murder their disabled children are painted as victims and the news calls upon us to feel sympathy for their actions, and for the horrible burdens that their child placed upon them to push them to the brink of destruction. You can find dozens, if not hundreds of these.

This is illustrative of the dichotomy I'm trying to explain, that children are only precious and valuable if they're untainted, perfect, abled, and have an apparently bright future. If you want, I will try to dig those examples or similar up for comparison.

And I am certainly not claiming that all parents of disabled children are terrible people. I said earlier in the thread and named one parent I do respect, but I'll go ahead and throw in Janissy (as she posted in this thread, and I'd forgotten her name earlier), MrXxx, cyberdad, League_Girl and others on this forum whose names I am forgetting right now.

I don't even think all those parents in that video are terrible parents. I am not even sure that one parent who said she wanted to kill her daughter is generally a terrible parent, although I think saying that in front of her child, or where her child could find out about it was a terrible choice on her part.

^^^^^

Yeah, agree with this.

This is why I said I didn't think you fully understood. People do condone the murders and they do want the parents to go free. And many parents do go free, or with a light slap on the wrist. Why? Because disabled lives are not considered valuable.

Are you speaking of strangers on a comment blog ? Are you speaking of the judicial system ? Are you speaking of parents who have gone through similar ordeals ? Let's be specific concerning, the people that we are discussing in this thread. This is 'why' I made a comment concerning black and white thinking. There is a tendency for you to jump the gun and place your myopic view upon some one else.

TheSunAlsoRises

I don't think she should have said with her daughter in the room but I think if thats how parents of disabled children feel society needs to KNOW so they can give families the support they need. I am seeing way too many stories in the media where parents have reached breaking point because society has left them in the lurch.

..unless some people don't want society to know what caring for a child with severe autism is like? What interest would that serve if they just STFU and kept their feelings repressed?

I'm not placing my not-myopic views on anyone else. I am expressing observations I and many other people have made.

I am speaking of a cross section of the entire population - people on blogs, the judicial system, even parents.

Are you arguing that disabled people's lives are valued? If I were the kind of person who uses words like "myopic" to dismiss people who don't agree with me, I'd say that is a myopic perspective.

This is another false dichotomy.

I do not have any problems with people knowing what it's like to care for a child with severe autism.

I have problems with normalizing the idea of disposal of those children as "too much trouble." Not that it isn't already normalized to some extent, but why help it along?

You can let society know without talking about killing your daughter and then stating if it weren't for your normal child you would have done it. That is basically stating we're lesser beings and fits in with that whole pre-nazi era of the survival of the fittest mentality. The subtle urging of it's okay to kill your autistic child is implicated. Society will sympathize with you. While you may not pick up on that, I do and if you read about all the autistic children murdered by their parents and how it's treated vastly different than a normal child, you may understand but only if you actually care.

Like I've already mentioned and Verdandi, there is a lack of empathy for the child with autism. Parents who act like they can just say whatever they want in front of their autistic child under their false idea that the child just can't understand what they are saying clearly could use some advice from those who actually have autism.

When a news story comes out about a parent murdering their autistic child, nothing is said unless the headline suggests autism on the rise and parents reaching their breaking point!!

This shows society has been brainwashed by the media to accept us as lesser beings with no feelings and there is no need to care if we're being bullied, if our parents are trying to kill us etc..

So what this does for parents who are actually not thinking about murdering their autistic child but stand up for them is putting their child at risk in schools of more bullying even by teachers with the notion that nobody cares about autistic children...not even their parents.

So far, I'd like Kat31 to be my mom.

Last edited by TheygoMew on 19 Dec 2011, 11:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.