Sadism - How far does our lack of empathy go?
Verdandi
Veteran
Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,275
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)
I'm against the death sentence, against revenge killing, and against much of the structure of the current penal system. I do not see any merit or virtue in torturing another human being to death, whatever their crimes. I am aware that sometimes killing happens in self-defense, however, and sometimes that is difficult to avoid.
Saddam Husein's son Uday killed and tortured a lot of people. I would be very happy if I were to watch him being tortured. I would be beyond happy if I were the one administering it. Why is it ok to put a bullet in his head but it's not ok to make him suffer? It makes no sense.
It means that you would enjoy torturing and killing a person. Uday tortured and killed people. That means that you and Uday think the same way. You and him are morally on the same level. You both enjoy killing and torturing people. If you are not wrong for wanting to do it, then he was not wrong for doing it. If what he did was wrong then you wanting to do the same thing is equally wrong. Or you are just hypocritical.
It's not the same thing. There is a difference between an innocent person and a murderer. There is also a difference in motive. According to your logic executing the murderer of a child is the same as murdering the child.
Let me give you, and anyone else that wants to answer, another scenario-
Your child has been kidnapped by a person who supplies the sex trade. You only have 2 options to get her back:
Option 1- You hire a mercenary who has a reputation for extreme brutality and you have no doubt in your mind that he will torture and slowly kill the kidnapper. The mercenary has a 100% chance to get your daughter back to you safe.
Option 2- You go with the FBI hostage rescue team who will capture the kidnapper alive and bring him in to stand trial. The FBI team has a 50% chance of getting your daughter back alive.
Which option would you choose?
How about Option 3? Just pay off the kidnapper what ever amount of money is needed to release the girl.
Saddam Husein's son Uday killed and tortured a lot of people. I would be very happy if I were to watch him being tortured. I would be beyond happy if I were the one administering it. Why is it ok to put a bullet in his head but it's not ok to make him suffer? It makes no sense.
It means that you would enjoy torturing and killing a person. Uday tortured and killed people. That means that you and Uday think the same way. You and him are morally on the same level. You both enjoy killing and torturing people. If you are not wrong for wanting to do it, then he was not wrong for doing it. If what he did was wrong then you wanting to do the same thing is equally wrong. Or you are just hypocritical.
It's not the same thing. There is a difference between an innocent person and a murderer. There is also a difference in motive. According to your logic executing the murderer of a child is the same as murdering the child.
Let me give you, and anyone else that wants to answer, another scenario-
Your child has been kidnapped by a person who supplies the sex trade. You only have 2 options to get her back:
Option 1- You hire a mercenary who has a reputation for extreme brutality and you have no doubt in your mind that he will torture and slowly kill the kidnapper. The mercenary has a 100% chance to get your daughter back to you safe.
Option 2- You go with the FBI hostage rescue team who will capture the kidnapper alive and bring him in to stand trial. The FBI team has a 50% chance of getting your daughter back alive.
Which option would you choose?
How about Option 3? Just pay off the kidnapper what ever amount of money is needed to release the girl.
A hypothetical situation doesn't require logic. I can't decide if you missed the point of the question or you're overly sensitive. How about option 3? both.
Saddam Husein's son Uday killed and tortured a lot of people. I would be very happy if I were to watch him being tortured. I would be beyond happy if I were the one administering it. Why is it ok to put a bullet in his head but it's not ok to make him suffer? It makes no sense.
It means that you would enjoy torturing and killing a person. Uday tortured and killed people. That means that you and Uday think the same way. You and him are morally on the same level. You both enjoy killing and torturing people. If you are not wrong for wanting to do it, then he was not wrong for doing it. If what he did was wrong then you wanting to do the same thing is equally wrong. Or you are just hypocritical.
It's not the same thing. There is a difference between an innocent person and a murderer. There is also a difference in motive. According to your logic executing the murderer of a child is the same as murdering the child.
Let me give you, and anyone else that wants to answer, another scenario-
Your child has been kidnapped by a person who supplies the sex trade. You only have 2 options to get her back:
Option 1- You hire a mercenary who has a reputation for extreme brutality and you have no doubt in your mind that he will torture and slowly kill the kidnapper. The mercenary has a 100% chance to get your daughter back to you safe.
Option 2- You go with the FBI hostage rescue team who will capture the kidnapper alive and bring him in to stand trial. The FBI team has a 50% chance of getting your daughter back alive.
Which option would you choose?
Well I think that the "Rambo" method is overrated, one of the problems with torture is that people will say close to anything while being tormented to try to stop the torture. Also what about the following problem.
You start to torture someone trying to get the answer to question X, you get a false answer which they have given you to try to stop the pain. You go off and then find out that the information is false. While you are away the person dies (while knowing the truth) so then you lose the chance to get the information out of them.
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Health is a state of physical, mental and social wellbeing and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity
I am not a jigsaw, I am a free man ! Diagnosed under the DSM5 rules with autism spectrum disorder, under DSM4 psychologist said would have been AS (299.80) but I suspect that I am somewhere between 299.80 and 299.00 (Autism) under DSM4.
I've never understood crimes where people get tortured for the PIN number to their bank card - it's only money! Who would want excrutiating pain/possible death as opposed to just telling them the number?? There's no logic to it. I'd rather lose all my money than suffer torture any day and can't understand the mentality of anyone who'd risk torture just to hang on to their money.
Option 1.
In this hypothetical world of super-efficient mercenaries, the formation of an FBI hostage rescue team seems unlikely.
I would prefer to enlist The A-Team.
Interesting question.
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'You seem very clever at explaining words, Sir,' said Alice. 'Would you kindly tell me the meaning of the poem called "Jabberwocky"?'
The OP's experiences seem unusual, even for someone with AS.
If I ever have violent fantasies, or could imagine myself getting pleasure from observing a violent or destructive act, it involves hypothetical or unspecified people, or no people at all.
For instance, had I been in New York to watch the twin towers collapse, I imagine I could have felt a certain (positive) excitement right when watching it happen. But the same would be true from watching a controlled demolition of the same towers, after they had been cleared of people. In this case, my lack of tendency to think in terms of the human cost means that I would focus on the excitement of seeing an event involving inanimate objects. I certainly wouldn't prefer that there were people inside.
Also, as a libertarian, I am very aware of some of the awful things that governments do. I believe I speak for a lot of anti-government folks when I say that deep within us, there is a certain feeling of understanding for someone like the Unabomber, who had a set of grievances and acted on them. I know that in "meltdown mode" I sometimes have fantasies of this, even though of course I have never considered doing something like that in real life.
I also have noticed the following weird thing: If I imagine a natural disaster happened in my city/town, which destroyed like 95% of the structures, but left my own house still standing, I see my first "gut" reaction as being an odd self-esteem boost, because subconsciously I'd feel somehow "special" or "chosen". Of course this is irrational, especially since I'm an atheist and don't see how the disaster could have been created by a being with an intent to favor me.
Now, when it comes to imagining ME intentionally hurting an actual, live person, especially one who didn't hurt me in any way? Now that makes me cringe! It's certainly not a fantasy of mine.
I've often wondered if I'm a sociopath. I couldn't care less about others misfortunes. I see atrocities and feel nothing. I care nothing for the law, or the implications of what I've done. I only fear the consequences. I could probably very badly hurt someone and not care. Only the law makes me care, the idea of being locked up. I don't usually have fantasies about cruelty though, so I would have to conclude that I'm not sadistic, at least not frequently. I will fantasize about hurting someone if they do something to me. I say sociopath, and not psychopath, as I do have emotions, and I do care about particular people, thought very few (two). There are people in my family that, I don't hate, but I couldn't bring myself to care about, and I couldn't really care less if they died.
I'm not diagnosed as a sociopath, but I would assume that I am. That, or I just find it extremely hard to form bonds, along with the aspie trait of "less empathy". I don't know why I'm posting, I have no advice.
I'm not diagnosed as a sociopath, but I would assume that I am. That, or I just find it extremely hard to form bonds, along with the aspie trait of "less empathy". I don't know why I'm posting, I have no advice.
Aspieopath?
Also, as a libertarian, I am very aware of some of the awful things that governments do. I believe I speak for a lot of anti-government folks when I say that deep within us, there is a certain feeling of understanding for someone like the Unabomber, who had a set of grievances and acted on them. I know that in "meltdown mode" I sometimes have fantasies of this, even though of course I have never considered doing something like that in real life.
I think the Unabomber had untreated paranoid schizophrenia. He was nothing like an Aspie as far as I can tell. I don't think he was a sociopath either. I think he truly thought he was doing a good thing.
As to the OP, eh, I don't know. Most people have sadistic thoughts at times. I will give the stock answer that nobody here can say and you should see a professional.
I'm not diagnosed as a sociopath, but I would assume that I am. That, or I just find it extremely hard to form bonds, along with the aspie trait of "less empathy". I don't know why I'm posting, I have no advice.
Aspieopath?
Psychoperger
Socioperger
