What are your thoughts on "political correctness"?

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Tyrion, I love your screenname btw, just to play devil's advocate, the ASD person may have been unaware that the comment was homophobic. It's one thing to know you shouldn't make homophobic (for example) comments and another to know on the spot that a particular comment is offensive to a particular group. It takes some theory of mind. I would know not to make that comment but some people with more severe social deficits might not.

Also the person may have just been a jerkface ......but it's POSSIBLE they didn't know better.

I agree with you. But given that some people on this thread (actually, most) are actively and consciously rejecting "political correctness," I don't think all cases like the one I describe are ones in which the aspie makes an innocent blunder. In some instances, an aspie consciously violates social norms and then complains about NT's being so "unfair." Or claims not to know the reason he was fired. It's not the AS person's fault, though. It's the fault of Western culture teaching people they should "be themselves" even if they are f****d up.

There's a clear difference between healthy skepticism and using anti-PC to be rude.

I am both a chauvinist and a politically obsessed cultural marxist depending on who I talk to.

"There's a clear difference between healthy skepticism and using anti-PC to be rude. "

I agree with this. There are definitely people who are quick to interpret anything as being insulting or exclusive towards a specific group, and I find a lot of the the arguments over the use of specific terms to be silly. (I don't mean blatantly offensive slurs - I'm talking about "black" vs. "African-American", "gay" vs. "homosexual", "person with autism" vs. "autistic person", etc.) But on the other hand, I see a lot of cases where people try to pass of their blatant bigotry as a simple lack of "political correctness", or where they feel slighted by something "politically correct" that's really just an attempt to be inclusive towards everyone. (Don't get me started on the people who complain about this supposed "War on Christmas", for example.)

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Agree.

For those who want to stop PC aren't you by the very virture of wanting PC banned implementing your own form of PC yourselves?

Gollywogs are still sold in the UK, and are still heavily criticized as racist for many valid reasons.



Those tiles were racist, probably calling upon the "mammy" stereotype or something like it ("Mammy" being American in origin).



"Lubra" appears to be an ethnic or racist slur, actually.

As for the rest - Why shouldn't white men have sex with aboriginal women in the first place? Does this also mean that aboriginal men should not have sex with white women as well? How is this a hornet's nest?

As far as the stolen generation being the result of benign policy to protect the children, I have to disagree, and I think that historical accounts disagree as well.

A pdf on the topic, written by Peter Read, a professor of history:

http://www.daa.nsw.gov.au/publications/ ... ations.pdf

And a webpage with information and resources on the topic:

http://www.als.org.au/Publications/

A UN paper (declaration) on the topic:

http://www.unhchr.ch/tbs/doc.nsf/(Symbol)/CERD.C.304.Add.101.En?Opendocument

I've spoken up against legitimate forms of discrimination and been told I was just being PC because the person I was talking to didn't agree that they were legitimate. Some people believe that only the discrimination they experience is legitimate and some people seem to believe that there's not any discrimination at all. Others acknowledge that it's real and say it is just the way things are so "sit down and shut up."

I think it may help to stop and ask, "Is this really just posturing or a trivial thing, or is it a real thing that other people may experience even if I do not?" I find that often that they are real things. I have experienced people bringing up trivial things and making them far more important than they should be, but I wouldn't call that "political correctness." I would call it "attention seeking", among other things.

Thank You Tyri0n. You brought up an excellent point I was confused on for a while. A lot of people are misinterpreting what that phrase means.

First, there are many aspects of oneself one can be.

Second, "Be yourself" is shorthand for "Be Your Better Self" or "Be Your Best Self." If a person has tendencies towards pedophilia then they need to get rid of that horrible aspect of themselves and get rid of it fast. A lot of NTs misconstrue this phrase as well.

http://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/2006/10 ... -yourself/

Not everyone who finds fault with Political Correctness in some instances only sees discrimination when it's directed against them. I mean some things ARE trivial or just posturing while others are real instances of discrimination. Of course there can be argument over what is a trivial thing....this is subjective but that doesn't mean nothing is trivial. Again the example of someone getting offended by someone else putting a Christmas tree up outside a public community centre. I think that's a trivial thing to be offended by and makes serious complaints look silly (and I'm not Christian btw). This happened in Toronto and the Christmas tree was removed. Or when my English teacher got a reputation for being a racist in grade 11 because she told two Chinese kids that they should speak English in her class. It's an English class......and in French class we were told to speak in French. This is an advanced English class in a way for native speakers in grade 11-but for someone just learning the language it makes even more sense -the more you practice the language the better you learn it. I was there when she told them ....it was not in a mean way and she only said she should speak English "in her class". My best friend who went to the school and is Chinese (the school was 90% Asian) agreed with me about this btw and had a lot to say against it.

I don't think most ppl want to ban PC or if that'd even be possible. That would be stupid and yes it would be another form of censorship. Some people just find fault with it in some instances or are critical of it. People's views on this subject aren't all black and white "PC is great and completely necessary" or "PC is evil or completely useless". There are more balanced views.

I suspect my ex boyfriend may have taken the phrase too literal because he did not respect anyone and he wouldn't stop teasing me and being sarcastic. Then he would get upset when I get upset by it or take him seriously. He expected me to learn to when to know he is teasing and being sarcastic. But it ended up me leaving him and he told me I had given up on him when he had no intention to change. So what he said was hypocritical. When he told me he would not change, he literally mean he would not change. I didn't know he meant he will stay an a**hole and always have excuses and you have to take care of him like a child ad put up with his teasing and not know when to take him seriously and put up with him not wanting to work and he will just leave his messes all over the place.

Okay if an abuser were to say they won't change, they probably mean they will keep beating you whenever they get upset and get mad because it's who they are. Not mean they won't change their interests and their likes and dislikes and what they like to wear and what their taste in movies and music is.

Everyone changes things about themselves to be better or because they want to show their partner respect or their friends like if someone is offended by the R word, you wouldn't use it around them for their respect. If someone doesn't like blond jokes, you don't tell them to them. You don't just expect them to suck it up and deal with it because it's who you are. This was the kind of crap my ex did.

PC is all about censorship. Banning PC would be banning censorship.

I did not say that everyone who finds fault with "political correctness" only sees discrimination when it's directed against them. However, I have seen it happen frequently enough that when I see someone use the phrase "political correctness" I am immediately skeptical of both their motivations in speaking and their perceptions of the situation. When I stop seeing people (including some in this thread) using the "political correctness" charge as a means to complain how unfair it is that they can't be racist, misogynist, homophobic, etc. without having it impact them in some negative fashion, I will perhaps consider taking it seriously as a criticism, rather than as a buzzword that has gained significant currency among those who wish to make excuses for why they get to say terrible things about people but the people in question don't ever get to object to it.

I want to clarify that I am not trying to project or read my negative experiences onto either you or nonperson, and I think I am coming across that way. I am sorry if so.

Last edited by Verdandi on 18 Mar 2013, 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Interesting assumptions you make there. I wouldn't. I know at least that I was upset by the use of "he" for people of unknown gender as a child, long before I knew anything about feminism. Just because the reaction doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean it isn't genuine. Why does the person who is offended have to reconsider his or her reaction, rather than you reconsidering your knee-jerk "why should I have to change my language" response? Could that response perhaps have some grounding in the fact that you have a higher social status than the person who is complaining? Just a thought.



I'm so impressed by your ability to be detached about an example that doesn't apply to you at all.



You don't share my view that one should show common courtesy to minorities/women/queer people. "PC" is meaningless. I don't believe in "PC", I believe in being a decent human being.



Do I need permission to be anxious? Angry? In love? No. Being offended is not a judge's ruling, it is an emotion. You are choosing to provoke it when you know that will be the consequence of your words. If I walked up to you on the street and started screaming abuse at you, would you hold off on being angry or annoyed until you knew if I really meant it or not?



Language is social. You can't have a language spoken by one person. The meanings of your words do not belong to you - yes, even if you are a white heterosexual male. If they communicate something others interpret as racist, sexist and homophobic, and you, knowing this, choose to go on using them, you are choosing to communicate that you are racist, sexist, homophobic. Deal with it.

Well, in my experience a lot of people just want to discuss and criticize political correctness and not use being anti PC as an excuse to be sexist or racist or anything else. If people assume automatically that someone who questions or criticizes political correctness is using it as an excuse to discriminate than it effectively closes the door to discussion-you're just invalidating the other side and dismissing their arguments out of hand. I understand that in your experience people have used being anti-PC to excuse discrimination. I've seen people do that too.....I'm not saying it doesn't happen. Just that as with anything else there are valid criticisms and it's worth questioning and debating.