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NocturnalQuilter
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01 Dec 2008, 7:24 pm

Callista wrote:
I think you're confusing "competent" with "exceptional".


Perhaps. Does "competent" = "paper-holder with an office"?



garyww
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01 Dec 2008, 7:25 pm

Almost anybody who can earn a degree in their field is qualified to do the job but that isn't to say that they're actually very good at doing at job that's why companies hire the 'best' people they can even though many of them will have the same degree and even the same amount of experience. There will always some people who are at the top of their game and just just human nature. We've all been treated by doctors who very probably should have been pumping gas.



NocturnalQuilter
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01 Dec 2008, 7:35 pm

If you look at the big picture...
and if you choose to believe there are as few as 710 exception doctors and specialists in the US...
Then it should come as no surprise at all that most (99%) of people receive only competent (Adequate? Less-than-adequate? You pick) health care.
Why?
Because there are over 80 million Americans with some sort of cardio-vascular disease,
200,000 breast cancer patients,
and (if the 1 in 50 for Asperger's is to believed) over 6 million people with Asperger's Syndrome.

How in the world could anyone expect anything other than mediocre healthcare when the "exceptional" doctor to patient ratio is like 1 to 8000?

I'm not trying to bust anyones' nuts here- just following the various logics to see how they fit my limited perception of the world.



garyww
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01 Dec 2008, 7:43 pm

That's exactly one of the biggest complaints most professionals have with the 'system' in that only a handfull of practicioners are actually providing what many consider to be 'compitent' care but everybody is having to share the insurance burdens.
(working on a car and building a race car are very different things. I don't want a half-assed doctor working on my head)



NocturnalQuilter
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01 Dec 2008, 7:50 pm

garyww wrote:
That's exactly one of the biggest complaints most professionals have with the 'system' in that only a handfull of practicioners are actually providing what many consider to be 'compitent' care but everybody is having to share the insurance burdens.


I don't understand what that has to do with your perceived number of competent doctors.
My final point in this is that a person has two options:
Believe there are only a "handful" of competent doctors and deal with the fact that you will almost always receive less-than-competent care. After all, how would the 710 competent doctors spread themselves between over 80 million patients?
OR, believe there are far more doctors qualified than believed and trust that one of them might be yours.

Personally, I have always had excellent doctors- even when I was in the hospital ICU for 3 weeks with no insurance.
My psychologist is amazing.
My regular doctor is great.
And most of the doctors contracted to the hospital I worked at were top-notch.

Perhaps I've just been lucky at the doctor lottery :D



garyww
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01 Dec 2008, 8:26 pm

I think you're lucky. I've worked in hospitals and it's no secret that even a lot of doctors on staff won't let their own peers work on them in an emergency. Competence and qualifications are two different things. Even a qualified layman can do good work. Competence is on the lower most rung of the ladder and just means you can pass a test. It doesn't mean you're good or talented at what you do just that you can at least do it good enough to pass.



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01 Dec 2008, 10:43 pm

Callista wrote:
Hmm, yes. Of course peer review is subject to peer pressure... I wonder to what extent that has an effect?

A big extent. I have experienced health professionals turning a blind eye to some pretty outrageous conduct.

I have also experienced health professionals who seem influenced by 'peers' 'above' them become utterly ineffective in important aspects of their duties accordingly.

Unfortunately, I suspect mental health work places might be particularly vulnerable to forming cultures that deeply disrespect the patients, and remove all accountability from staff.



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01 Dec 2008, 11:51 pm

NocturnalQuilter wrote:
Personally, I have always had excellent doctors- even when I was in the hospital ICU for 3 weeks with no insurance.
My psychologist is amazing.
My regular doctor is great.
And most of the doctors contracted to the hospital I worked at were top-notch.

Perhaps I've just been lucky at the doctor lottery :D


It could be luck, or it could be you're just living in the right area. Like any other profession, if you're good in your field, you normally pick your location based on job security, future income potential, and what the area has to offer your family and you overall in living conditions.

Where I'm located it takes a bit of looking to find a "really good" Dr. sometimes, and then when you do find one they normally don't stay long.


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MizLiz
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02 Dec 2008, 12:11 am

I called one of my psychiatrists a drug dealer today and she didn't deny it.

Now if I could just get the other one to admit it.



NocturnalQuilter
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02 Dec 2008, 1:46 am

Beenthere wrote:
It could be luck, or it could be you're just living in the right area.

I live in Bakersfield, for gawds-sake. The armpit of California. 3rd highest foreclosure rate in the country. Highest unemployment rate in the state. 3rd highest gang-related activity in the state. I could go on... Not the kind of place you'd find extraordinary doctors.

MizLiz wrote:
I called one of my psychiatrists a drug dealer today and she didn't deny it.

Not quite the way to establish a good rapport with ones' doctor, ya think?
In fact, I can't even begin to understand what is going through ones' mind to say something like that.
Do you think the doctor is just gonna break down in tears and fess up to a lifetime of making it up as they go along?
:roll:



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02 Dec 2008, 3:53 am

If I were a good shrink, I'd have reassured my client that I wasn't a drug dealer, giving convincing evidence to back up my claim. I sure wouldn't have just left it hanging in the air like that if I thought a client had such a cynical view about my capacity to help. Patient trust is vital and a good shrink will strive for that.

Paradoxically it's one of the few things I like about my GP - he agrees with me that drugs are over-rated.



Daniel41149512
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02 Dec 2008, 6:01 am

pandd wrote:
Unfortunately, I suspect mental health work places might be particularly vulnerable to forming cultures that deeply disrespect the patients, and remove all accountability from staff.


Yup,

My psychologist has recently been comming out with things like "well, no I didn't quite say that" or "no you must have misinterpreted that" or the all time classic "I'm diasspointed that you took something out of context like that" - when I have it written down in plain english some of the cr*p she has come out with.

Not to mention counsellors I have seen in the past.



pandd
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02 Dec 2008, 9:10 am

Daniel41149512 wrote:
pandd wrote:
Unfortunately, I suspect mental health work places might be particularly vulnerable to forming cultures that deeply disrespect the patients, and remove all accountability from staff.


Yup,

My psychologist has recently been comming out with things like "well, no I didn't quite say that" or "no you must have misinterpreted that" or the all time classic "I'm diasspointed that you took something out of context like that" - when I have it written down in plain english some of the cr*p she has come out with.

Not to mention counsellors I have seen in the past.

Suggested responses:
"Quite what did you say?"
"Please re-interpret for me"
"I have not intentionally taken your comments out of context, can you please re-explain the point you intended them to convey, preferably in very literal and exact language'.



slowmutant
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02 Dec 2008, 10:00 am

MizLiz wrote:
I called one of my psychiatrists a drug dealer today and she didn't deny it.

Now if I could just get the other one to admit it.


If you don't take your therapy seriously, don't expect results. Dealing drugs is not the same as prescribing medication. If your sarcasm and contempt is lost on this psychiatrist of yours, maybe you're being too subtle.



Beenthere
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02 Dec 2008, 11:25 am

NocturnalQuilter wrote:
Beenthere wrote:
It could be luck, or it could be you're just living in the right area.

I live in Bakersfield, for gawds-sake. The armpit of California. 3rd highest foreclosure rate in the country. Highest unemployment rate in the state. 3rd highest gang-related activity in the state. I could go on... Not the kind of place you'd find extraordinary doctors.


Population here is around 3,000 with an unemployment rate of about the same, with no growth potential in the foreseeable future. Average household income is around $21,000 a year.


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slowmutant
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02 Dec 2008, 11:31 am

Daniel41149512 wrote:
pandd wrote:
Unfortunately, I suspect mental health work places might be particularly vulnerable to forming cultures that deeply disrespect the patients, and remove all accountability from staff.


Yup,

My psychologist has recently been comming out with things like "well, no I didn't quite say that" or "no you must have misinterpreted that" or the all time classic "I'm diasspointed that you took something out of context like that" - when I have it written down in plain english some of the cr*p she has come out with.

Not to mention counsellors I have seen in the past.


Your doctors and counsellors, it seems, are invariably wrong, making you invariably correct. Call me crazy, but I think you're just determined not to cooperate. Like a child.

It's never occurred to you that maybe you have been misinterpreting and taking out of context? Is that at all possible?