NTs DO THINGS with conversation...

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now that is some good insight. f**k normality = 50% psychopathy/50% animal bonding need? damnnnsurely not a lot of people are like that amongst the neurotypicals. i wonder how many things people have said have been just utter BS in meaning but just for some purpose... i'm sorry after reading a lot about the worst of normality i believe i have a sympathy for the people who massacre a group of bullies or just people lol.

a sensible explanation would be that stupidity allows normal things like this to go on... if a person wants to be higher in the pecking order suppose it has to be a fear thing did they really need to essentially lie and fabriacte a statement to give off a persona couldn't they have used some intellect to say something genuine and also to an effect can't they do stuff with conversation whilst making it real. it's like did he have to adopt the persona of some racist who states their racism - urgh... maybe it's meant to be known that he didn't 100% mean what he said and that it's known that it's simply conveying an attitude. because when i really think about it i don't even know what the feeling of despising is let a lone a whole race - i never dwell on person to despise them even if they've made me angry. despising probably comes when you're really in the rat race and aware of your rank and who's attacking you. and again the more i understand about the reasons for me not doing all the normal things and that apparently being 'wrong' wrong? f*****g hell... the more f****d up it is that apparently you need to be taught to do all this. they never teach how to instil fear in people to gain rank in the order yet they teach you to 'appropriately' hang out with the people that do. i seriously might want to become a teacher with all this knoweldge and soon eyes for seeing personal states (see my threads) and then witness the bullying and as an adult just destroy mentally the bullies like read a particularly ret*d bit of their english homework to the rest of their peers lol. but then again that would be to do with social rank as if their skill at english is tehrefore linked to their whole intelliengce which is linked to their social rank right...

i think i know why they call it 'disorders' order refers to the animals social ranking and dis means lack of that perception. and i'm sure i would have been aware of it as a child though maybe traumatised if i was and witnessing it. humans are species of intelligence, intelligence evolved idk how but basically a lack of food supply and an ability to get many different food supplies so basicaly our competition wasn't with other species competing for same food or to hunt us but just competition amongst each other. also social brain machiovelian theory proves all this i'm just sitll in denial or need to experience it in real life to know if it's really that sinister or like just a kind of we do it but we don't think it's right.

I have a great example of this. When I was younger my mother used to wear these really old worn out grungy jeans and my friends made fun of her. Many years later they sold jeans just like the ones my mother wore and even worse already like that in the store. All of a sudden they were "in style".

Once my friends were laughing about how awful they thought jeans that go up to your waist are, I forget if they thought they were uncomfortable, looked bad, or both. I still wear those and they used to to with no complaint.

I've never cared about what was in style. I wore what I liked.

Question here:

Do aspies generally rant? If they do, what is the point in it? Is it still an assault?

Wow. That explains a lot actually. I'll try to remember that because I often get in 'trouble' for trying to debate when people say things like that.

NTs are very strange.

I have to put a lot of effort to read this very great English topic, and it's time for me to get some nap. I have read too much, it's too hard for my brain and I am very tire.
I think I will translate the main substance of this topic into my language (I'm Thai. Are there any Thai aspies in this forum?) and I will spend some of my free time discuss this with all of you.

Sorry for my bad English skill.
Thx very much GreenTea.

Yes, it took me awhile to "get" that. I heard more than once how people felt I talked at them rather than to them. >.<

I have found that I tend to prefer the "company" of non-neurotypical people, however, I've only ever had the privilege of "meeting" them online; offline 'tis only neurotypicals. Pertaining to neurotypical people; I think the reason I prefer the company of children and older adults is because, unlike adolescent and younger adults, they are (typically) satisfied with a conversation being merely the exchange of information. I can tolerate the company of most neurotypical adolescents and (younger) adults, but enjoying it seems to be somewhat of a rarity. :l

I guess the issue here is what the "experts" call "taking things literal".

I too used to explain and explain, argue, bring evidence, not knowing that they didn't even mean the things they said, they were just DOING something with language rather than communicating an erroneous idea.

One more example that comes to mind is:

"We MUST have coffee together sometime!" - should the intention of the speaker really be that of informing you that, in their opinion, you two must have coffee together sometime, they'd ask you if you're free any day next week to meet for coffee. Something more concrete than "sometime" without follow-up. Actually what the speaker is DOING here is trying to part with you on very amicable terms, should they ever want to contact you again.

Nowadays I know that if someone really wants to keep in touch with me, they call me. Those who say "Let's keep in touch!" mean "Let's not keep in touch but be nice to each other next time we happen to come across one another."

This issue plays a major part in my misjudging the closeness I have with a person, their appreciation of me, their interest in being friends, etc. And it's one of the major determinants of my not seeing it coming and being totally surprised when I do keep in touch (based on their words) and they blow me off blatantly.

Yes I find the 'Let's meet for a coffee sometime' thing bizarre - if you don't want to do it, why say it?

I prefer to meet up with people at some kind of organised event like a support group meeting or a consultation, so that there's no pressure to keep up a long conversation with them - you can say hello and have a short chat then take part in the event and perhaps see them for a short while during a coffee break - you have the subject of the event in common to talk about and it's a less involved form of social interaction that means you don't have the pressure of having to impress them, you just both happen to be at the same event.

As far as the difference between NT and AS conversation goes I've always thought NT conversation is far more focused on the main chance ie what are they going to get out of the communication. Most NT conversation is purpose-focused - it's to achieve a particular aim usually. I don't like it for this reason - it seems very pressurised to me - I can sense all sorts of underlying tensions and motives going on and it makes me feel very unsettled. When I talk to my aspie/neuro-diverse friends we are actually talking about the topic at hand - nothing else so it's relaxed and enjoyable. If we each take turns to do a monologue it doesn't matter, as we have an interest in what the other is saying and might ask questions about it.

NTs make me feel I'm 'not with the programme' and hence they often see me as inferior, unsophisticated or in some way slow but they fail to realise I don't want to be with it - what they are focused on achieving doesn't interest me. I'm aware of the dynamics involved, I just feel it's a mixture of beneath me and beyond me to act in that manner - too much like hard work!
I think NTs usually think I'm not even aware of it all though, just because I don't exhibit the same behaviour as them.

"Let's get together sometime" means "let's leave all channels for further relating open".

"Say, do you like movies? Do you go to the movies sometimes? I was thinking of going next week, are you available?" means "let's get together sometime."

Now, don't idealize NT society. They too suffer from constant confusion and having to decipher each other's words for intent. And all the misunderstandings between them. The double speak they so love and defend is a huge headache for them too. The only difference with aspies is that NTs intuitively learn, very young, that anything a person says has to be deciphered because the meaning is not literal. I discovered this in my forties.

I know

I usually let them come to me rather than vice versa, so that I know for sure they actually want to interact with me

This a really good thread, I read through all of it. Although I am NT, i am very socially awkward and didn't understand why people bother with all the superficial talk either. Anyhow, for the example of the girl with the dress. If I were to think it's ugly yet she seems happy with it on, I wouldn't say what I thought, I know I would say something agreeable to what she thinks so that she can be happy. In other words, if I sense that what I say can or may the other person unhappy, I always refrain from saying it, even though they ask for honesty. I do know that of a friend comes to me and asks me "Am I fat" or "Does my hair look ugly" and if either are true, I won't say it because I know that in this conversation, the other person doesn't really want the truth, they actually want to bring their self esteem up through me saying things like, "No, never! You are great." Those are the only examples I know of since this is how girls talk around me and reaffirm each other's worth through their beauty or looks.

When it comes to strangers though or people that I am not comfortable with, I get lost and I do wonder their motives. For example, I was walking to school and then a very old and white-haired man stood and spoke in a formal tone, "Good Morning," while looking at me, I quickly mummbled back a"Good morning" and walked more quickly away...I wasn't sure how I was supposed to respond or what this old man's motive was. He definately wasn't a pervert...and I'm still baffled about it. There are more times where I am confused. But I just know that I never take what Nt's say literally unless I can't find a motive, otherwise, I always ask myself "What are they doing or trying to do?"

XD i Had no idea! no wonder my gf gets mad when we start discussing subjects of my interest!

True. l wouldn't take the reverse approach and now take everything we say too seriously though.

we don't all speak in code lol. IME this is more of a female thing. Though males do too, they're less likely to get upset with you if you don't pick up on the code.

And a huge number of NTs male and female just trade pleasantries like "Good morning" without intending anything deeper xD

lt can be confusing, l'm sure. Mostly l don't get on so well with types that are usually meaning something different than what they say anyway. l mostly judge someone's character first and interpret their meaning that way, l don't make many friends who expect you to know what they're thinking if they don't make it obvious.

The good morning is not as vexing to me as "how are you doing?"

I used to say how I was doing in response, leaving people later on thinking I was weird. I have learned to say "fine" automatically tho.

it's a stupid one. l say "fine" or good and just brush it off as quickly as possible. The "and you" if it seems really necessary.

But end it as quickly as possible, it really is something used to ask a person about how they are doing with completely false intentions, l guess just so both people appear "nice" lol.

"Good morning" is the best example of DOING things with conversation.

To give an extreme example for the sake of clarity, some CEOs (old school) would greet employees they came across in the corridors only from a certain position level upwards. Say, from middle managers to VPs. The greeting was used as a carrot-and-stick tool, especially where salaries were low and not really rewarding means. You want to be noticed by Management, work hard to get promoted. Good morning is the coin.

In general, greetings are used as tools for relating and even as weapons. The extension or withdrawal of a greeting to a relative, neighbor, co-worker, etc. is the first determinant of the relationship between 2 people. It's the first spoken symbol we use to DO with the relationship what we want to do with it - come closer, distance, end it, etc.

As a weapon, saying good morning to everyone present except one person can destroy their image in the group and/or their self-esteem, confidence if you're the one in power.

Come say hello!
...and he didn't say hello.
Did she say hello to you?
...exchanged hellos.