Adult outcomes in the population

Post Reply New Topic

Tuttle,

What you posted is a significantly better explanation than what I was trying to say than I was able to say or even understand as fully as I could have. I think it is better than anything I could have produced.

aghogday,

I actually became more aware of my cognitive abilities as an adult, once I was away from such influences. That's when I discovered how easy learning any topic I want to study is, and how quickly I can pick up some kinds of skills. It is not completely even - some skills are much more difficult for me than others. Trying to cook from a typical recipe is a sure way to a meltdown, but I can spend hours learning to play a song by ear. In the latter case, unfortunately, I am significantly out of practice. I am going to try to rectify that in the near future.

A lot of the abuse I experienced was more damaging because of what it prompted me to believe about myself than it was for being traumatic, although trauma was a significant issue as well. Considering how oblivious I am to insults directed at me, it takes some seriously persistent verbal abuse to actually register with me, and that's been true most of my life. I do, however, wonder where I would be if I'd had a supportive environment, and actually willingness to assist me when I needed assistance, when I couldn't process information that I was supposed to process in order to understand what to do and how to do it in school.

Growing up with BAP parents in a BAP family was the bestest support for me.

I think it might have been different if I had access to computers but my intellectual pursuits were pretty limited to TV and a few magazine subscriptions after college. I'm not sure what would have become of my brain if computers hadn't eventually come along..

Let's just be thankful that computers came along. Thanks to computers, we can communicate (in text) our thoughts and facts to each other even though we live hundreds (and thousands) of miles away from each other in a relatively short period of time (i.e. instantly) without having to write a letter expressing an individual thought which would take (at the shortest 5 days) to send to the person we are communicating to.

Also, I'm grateful because my handwriting is rubbish and it is significantly harder for me to express my thoughts via that means.

At least I outgrew reversing and confusing letters and numbers with each other.

Since nobody else is responding to the survey questions posted in the OP, I might as well post the summary results of the survey in relation to those found in the study in this URL: http://link.springer.com/article/10.102 ... rue#page-1. The study in the URL included those diagnosed with AS/HFA. I figured it would be relevant since a fair majority of the people here on WrongPlanet have some form of a high-functioning autism spectrum disorder.

First, out of the 27 survey respondents who gave an IQ for this thread with confirmed ASDs, the median IQ for that group is 130. The mean IQ for the study in the URL above for people with AS/HFA is 100. So a major difference in IQ is present.

Second, let's compare the proportion of those who satisfy the criteria ([A] In higher education / currently employed). 29 (or 65.9%) of the 44 survey respondents for this thread with confirmed ASDs satisfied that criteria whereas only 46(or 60.5%) of the 76 people w/ AS/HFA in the outcome study given above satisfied this criteria. However, these percentages were not significantly different from each other at the alpha = 0.1 level. 16 (or 55.2%) of these 29 people were in higher education whereas only 10 (or 21.7%) of the 46 people in the outcome study were in higher education. These percentages were significantly different from each other at the alpha = 0.1 level.

Third, let's compare the proportion of those who satisfy the criteria ([B] Living 100% independently). 11 (or 25.0%) of the 44 survey respondents for this thread with confirmed ASDs were living 100% independently as defined in the OP whereas only 10(or 13.2%) of the 76 people w/ AS/HFA in the outcome study given above were living 100% independently as defined in the OP. However, these percentages were not significantly different from each other at the alpha = 0.1 level.

Fourth, let's compare the proportion of those who satisfy the criteria ([C] Having at least 2 friends/steady relationship). 29 (or 65.9%) of the 44 survey respondents for this thread with confirmed ASDs satisfy this criteria whereas only (at the most) 33 (or 43.4%) of the 76 participants in the outcome study with AS/HFA had either some friends or were in a steady relationship. These percentages were significantly different from each other at the alpha = 0.1 level.

In conclusion, it seems that the positive IQ difference between the median IQ of the survey respondents in this thread (130) and that in the AS/HFA group in the outcome study in the first paragraph (100) has a positive effect on the following areas: [1] higher education (not really surprised there) [2] interpersonal relationships.

I wonder how many of people's friendships and relationships started in college, and whether there is a bias specifically because of people doing higher education.

It seems like there might be, its easier to meet people in school than out of school.

I did more statistical analysis on the data provided here on this thread and I have come with the following:

First, let's discuss STEM (Science/Technology/Engineering/Math) majors in people with ASDs. There was a recent study that was published titled something along the lines of 'Autistic Kids Lean To STEM Majors in College - If They Go' which showed that 34.3% of autistic college students major in a STEM field. The link to that study is as follows: http://psychcentral.com/news/2012/11/16 ... 47797.html .
Out of the responses on this thread in terms of field of degree, the following would be classified as a STEM major: (1) Science - Biology, Biosciences, Neuroscience, Psychology, Social Sciences, Theology (2) Technology - Computer Science, Electronics, Computer Technology (3) Engineering - (general) engineering, Mechanical Engineering, Software Engineering (4) Math - Applied Statistics, Economics, Finance, Math (5) Major that applies science - Law. Out of the 37 respondents on this thread with ASDs who have attended & graduated with a degree/currently in some form of higher education, 22 (or 59.5%) of them were classified as STEM majors. This percentage was significantly greater than 0.343 at the alpha=0.05 level.

Second, let's discuss mean ASQ scores in STEM majors and non-STEM majors. Although the mean ASQ score for STEM majors (N=19, mean=36.37, SD=5.983) was higher than an average ASQ score of 35.8 for someone with AS or some other form of a high-functioning ASD, this was not significant at the alpha=0.05. However, the mean ASQ score for non-STEM majors (N=12, mean=38.67, SD=4.163) was significantly different from the average ASQ score of 35.8 at the alpha=0.05 level.

Third, let's discuss how well a person with an ASD who was/is a STEM major while in a form of higher education can predict a good or better outcome for someone with an ASD. Although being a STEM major does increase the chance of someone with an ASD having a good or better outcome, this was not significant at the alpha = 0.05.

Fourth, let's discuss whether ASQ scores, FSIQ scores, being a STEM major, or any interaction of the three variables increase the chance of someone with an ASD having a good or better outcome. Results show that none of these variables nor their interactions were significant at the alpha=0.05.

Conclusions
(1) (Expected)A fair majority of autistics (or at least higher than 34.3% of them) who attend/graduated from some sort of higher education will be majoring/have majored in a STEM field.
(2) (Not expected) STEM majors with ASDs have no more autistic traits than the average AS/HFA individual (regardless of whether they ever attended any form of higher education).
(3) (Not expected) Non-STEM majors with ASDs have a slightly higher degree of autistic traits than the average AS/HFA individual.
(4) (Not expected) People with ASDs who are/were STEM majors do not have a better chance of having a good or better outcome than other autistic college students who are not STEM majors.
(5) (Not expected) Neither ASQ scores nor FSIQ scores nor being a STEM major nor any interaction of these three variables increases an ASD individual's chance of having a good or better outcome as defined
by the OP.

What was your source of stem majors?

http://www.ice.gov/doclib/sevis/pdf/stem-list.pdf

The government provides a recently expanded very long and detailed list, but general degrees in economics, psychology, finance, social science, law, and Theology are not included in that list. There are several specialized degrees that are associated with finance and psychology, considered part of stem majors but not the general degrees. The APA would like all degrees associated with psychology to be included but that hasn't happened yet.

http://www.apa.org/pubs/info/reports/st ... line.aspx#

Given that list from the government I counted 9. With the number of individuals on this site that report non-verbal learning disorder related impairments, one wouldn't expect more than a third of the population pursuing degrees to be pursuing STEM degrees in this online environment. The number of general degrees in psychology, social science, English, law, and theology reflect that.

Although they are not included in the government list of stem degrees the amount of math and statistics required in general finance and economic degrees, might be included in a STEM list somewhere but I haven't seen it referenced.

Given the high IQ's reported one would expect much higher percentages of college degrees earned than what was reported in the referenced study at only 15% of the general population of people on the spectrum studied of over 11,000 individuals, ranking close to the bottom of the other 10 disabilities included in the studies. From what I observed what was reported here was substantially higher than 15%, among those that reported those details.

The highlighted finding of the referenced study was challenging the stereotype that people on the spectrum pursuing college majors were mostly pursuing majors in the STEM areas, as reported earlier in a much smaller UK study that Simon Baron Cohen was part of. While it has been reported by Cohen and colleagues that those in STEM fields generally score higher on AQ tests than related fields, the AQ test has a specificity of about 10% assessing risk of an actual diagnosed ASD in the general population, which means that it is likely that close to 10% of the general population scores in the autism range on the AQ test, with close to 1 percent actually diagnosable.

Studies like this don't likely capture many people in visual spatial fields that don't require degrees like auto mechanics, carpentry, plumbing, and electricians that may neither have the resources for insurance coverage for a diagnosis or any idea they might be diagnosable for a disorder. They may not score highly on an IQ test because of lower Verbal IQ scores, they may rarely talk and when they do it may be monotone, while exhibiting little non verbal facial expressions or demonstrating social-emotional reciprocity. And they may spend most of their time in their garage doing woodworking or in the back yard working on a car at the detriment of their emotional social lives with their family if they are not already divorced.

It is very likely that the adult study in England scanning the adult population of ASD at one percent, captured some of these folks, particularly considering there was close to a 9 to 1 ratio of males captured, but it's a good question of whether or not that is really an autism spectrum disorder. Probably not by Kanner or Hans Asperger standards for the limited subgroup they studied.