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naturalplastic
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29 Jul 2013, 8:51 pm

Jasper1 wrote:
Ok, I'm not very smart in this kind of stuff, and sometimes I tend to over simplify / generalize especially when my knowledge is lacking.

Aspergers is something that has only recently been categorized and labeled as such. It doesn't mean that it hasn't been around for as long as man has. If that's the case, it's hardly evolution. It's like finding a "rare" species of something that's been around as long as any common species, but since it was just recently found by humans who finally got around to getting to some remote part of the earth, it's classified as a new species when in fact it's hardly new to the earth.

Also, Aspies are not necessarily better at technology than NT's, and I really fail to see how that aspect would further the PROCREATION of Aspies over NT's. From what I can tell Aspies and Autistics have less chances of procreating than NT's due to social limitations.

Even in a society that is becoming more and more technical and there is less face to face time....social prowess is still needed for procreation.

I dunno, just a few thoughts.


No arguement from me on any of the above.



b9
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04 Aug 2013, 8:39 am

naturalplastic wrote:
b9 wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
b9 wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
So...

If aspergers were "evolution in action" then two things would be discernable:

1) a trend toward the human race becoming more aspergian/autistic.

2) Some reason that natural selection would be favoring autistic traits.

In all these pages no one has produced any evidence for either.

So the concensus is: aspergers is NOT evolution in action.

Though it IS part of the human race's genetic storehouse of variation -the stuff of evolution- and could become favored by natural selection in some future cosmic catastrophe.


i am sorry but i wish to digress. you and everyone else in this thread seem to equate the idea of "evolution" as a progressive process where only the fittest survive, but evolution is also responsible for the extinction of processes that can not compete and flourish in the world in which they exist.

things become extinct due to evolution as well.

evolution is not a subjectively positive progression through the vagaries of life's demands.
evolution also means that one's species may no longer be able to survive due to hostile environmental developments that spell their demise.

evolution will eventually lead to complete entropy wherein no identity of relative characteristics of various depleted realities exists. one day in the future there will be nothing that still exists, and opinions of long dead people are not even a factor of reality when reality itself is gone.


So ....

(A) that you warned us that you're about to talk nonsense. And (b) you then procede to talk nonsense.

Well I cant say you didnt warn us!

Lol!

But since you're admiting that you have nothing to say- why did you bother making this post?



you have not the intellect that you wish to fool others into believing you have. you may have a fan base that will reinforce your antagonism to me, but i would never want to be stuck in your mind. i am claustrophobic. i never said that what i was going to say is nonsense. you have (due to the resolution of your thought capacity) probably confused what i said in this thread with what i said in the random thread which is truly nonsense.

you are aiming way above your head trying to shoot me down in this thread.

you may try to discredit me with your haughty assertion that you have higher intelligence, but i know that you are not extremely intelligent and so your bullets just bounce off my sense of justification. i do not care how many people are your fans who would endorse your words and reinforce your resistance to what i said, what i said i will stand by.

if it is the case that you are a much loved member of WP, i may now expect some sort of resistance from other posters in my future posts. i think you are bright, but i do not think you are gifted like your often bugled assertions suggest.

i was never impressed by you like i was with ruveyn or fnord etc.
you are a nobody to me.

your fans are probably all cheering in delight for you , but any fans you have would be equally or more stupid than you.

i do not want to fight with you so i propose that you steer clear of anything else i have to say.


WTFRU talking about?

you're the one who steered in MY direction, and choose to pick a fight with me! Not the other way around.

But I promise.

Ill stop stalking you.

Lol!


Which is ez to do because I never stalked you in the first place. Rarely even crossed paths with you.



ok whatever. be happy in your own brain.



naturalplastic
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04 Aug 2013, 9:46 am

b9 wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
b9 wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
b9 wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
So...

If aspergers were "evolution in action" then two things would be discernable:

1) a trend toward the human race becoming more aspergian/autistic.

2) Some reason that natural selection would be favoring autistic traits.

In all these pages no one has produced any evidence for either.

So the concensus is: aspergers is NOT evolution in action.

Though it IS part of the human race's genetic storehouse of variation -the stuff of evolution- and could become favored by natural selection in some future cosmic catastrophe.


i am sorry but i wish to digress. you and everyone else in this thread seem to equate the idea of "evolution" as a progressive process where only the fittest survive, but evolution is also responsible for the extinction of processes that can not compete and flourish in the world in which they exist.

things become extinct due to evolution as well.

evolution is not a subjectively positive progression through the vagaries of life's demands.
evolution also means that one's species may no longer be able to survive due to hostile environmental developments that spell their demise.

evolution will eventually lead to complete entropy wherein no identity of relative characteristics of various depleted realities exists. one day in the future there will be nothing that still exists, and opinions of long dead people are not even a factor of reality when reality itself is gone.


So ....

(A) that you warned us that you're about to talk nonsense. And (b) you then procede to talk nonsense.

Well I cant say you didnt warn us!

Lol!

But since you're admiting that you have nothing to say- why did you bother making this post?



you have not the intellect that you wish to fool others into believing you have. you may have a fan base that will reinforce your antagonism to me, but i would never want to be stuck in your mind. i am claustrophobic. i never said that what i was going to say is nonsense. you have (due to the resolution of your thought capacity) probably confused what i said in this thread with what i said in the random thread which is truly nonsense.

you are aiming way above your head trying to shoot me down in this thread.

you may try to discredit me with your haughty assertion that you have higher intelligence, but i know that you are not extremely intelligent and so your bullets just bounce off my sense of justification. i do not care how many people are your fans who would endorse your words and reinforce your resistance to what i said, what i said i will stand by.

if it is the case that you are a much loved member of WP, i may now expect some sort of resistance from other posters in my future posts. i think you are bright, but i do not think you are gifted like your often bugled assertions suggest.

i was never impressed by you like i was with ruveyn or fnord etc.
you are a nobody to me.

your fans are probably all cheering in delight for you , but any fans you have would be equally or more stupid than you.

i do not want to fight with you so i propose that you steer clear of anything else i have to say.


WTFRU talking about?

you're the one who steered in MY direction, and choose to pick a fight with me! Not the other way around.

But I promise.

Ill stop stalking you.

Lol!


Which is ez to do because I never stalked you in the first place. Rarely even crossed paths with you.



ok whatever. be happy in your own brain.


Must be a case of mistaken idenity.

There must be some person on WP you gets in fights with you all of the time. And you must have me confused with this other person.

The only explanation I can think of for these bizarre nonseguitars that you're going on about.

So i hope this other person stops giving you a hard time!

OTHER PERSON...

Knock it off!



Magnus_Rex
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04 Aug 2013, 11:04 am

If it is genetic (it probably is), then it is a mutation. Mutations are part of evolution, but that does not make them invariably beneficial. Sexual reproduction is a very important (the most important factor, I would say) in evolution, and a quick look at the Love and Dating forum will show you that many people in the spectrum will probably never have children. Therefore, the mutation will most likely die with the "mutants".

But it has a tendency to appear even when the parents do not have it. Who knows? Maybe our numbers will increase exponentially and we will become like pandas: a species with no drive for reproduction. :lol:


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Sorry for this terrible joke, by the way.


naturalplastic
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04 Aug 2013, 2:39 pm

Magnus_Rex wrote:
If it is genetic (it probably is), then it is a mutation. Mutations are part of evolution, but that does not make them invariably beneficial. Sexual reproduction is a very important (the most important factor, I would say) in evolution, and a quick look at the Love and Dating forum will show you that many people in the spectrum will probably never have children. Therefore, the mutation will most likely die with the "mutants".

But it has a tendency to appear even when the parents do not have it. Who knows? Maybe our numbers will increase exponentially and we will become like pandas: a species with no drive for reproduction. :lol:


So you're saying that we will somehow 'mulitiply exponentially' without procreating. And this will happen because the mutatation will just 'appear' anew in each generation with increasing frequency without being inherited. Which means something in the environment would have to be causing this to happen.

Must be the aspertame that they put in hamburgers. Aspergers is caused by asp-burgers!



Last edited by naturalplastic on 05 Aug 2013, 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Magnus_Rex
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04 Aug 2013, 2:45 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
So you're saying that we will somehow 'mulitiply expontentially' without procreating. This because the mutatation will just 'appear' anew in each generration with increasing frequency. Which means something in the environment would have to be causing this to happen.

Must be the aspertame that they put in hamburgers. Aspergers is caused by asp-burgers!

Not at all. I am sure it is a consequence of the rise of nuclear energy. The radiation is mutating everyone.


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DISCLAIMER: It should be noted that, while I strongly suspect I have Asperger's syndrome, I am not diagnosed. Nevertheless, my score on RAADS-R is 186, which makes me a pretty RAAD guy.

Sorry for this terrible joke, by the way.


cyberdad
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05 Aug 2013, 12:54 am

naturalplastic wrote:
velocirapture wrote:
I have been on this site less than a year, and I feel this is at least the sixth or seventh time I have seen this question posed in some form. :roll:


Its gotta be atleast that number per year every year.

Different people keep reinventing this same wheel over,and over, and over again.


You have to appreciate many of us don't have the luxury or time to read every thread posted on WP.



rdos
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05 Aug 2013, 1:23 pm

Magnus_Rex wrote:
If it is genetic (it probably is), then it is a mutation. Mutations are part of evolution, but that does not make them invariably beneficial. Sexual reproduction is a very important (the most important factor, I would say) in evolution, and a quick look at the Love and Dating forum will show you that many people in the spectrum will probably never have children. Therefore, the mutation will most likely die with the "mutants".

But it has a tendency to appear even when the parents do not have it. Who knows? Maybe our numbers will increase exponentially and we will become like pandas: a species with no drive for reproduction. :lol:


There is no way that autism could be caused by a single mutation. Neurodiversity is composed of 100s or even 1,000s of different traits that cannot be coded with a few mutations. In addition to that, there is risk factor for autism / neurodiversity on every chromosome. You are welcome to try to fit that into your model if you can.



okie
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07 Aug 2013, 7:39 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Magnus_Rex wrote:
If it is genetic (it probably is), then it is a mutation. Mutations are part of evolution, but that does not make them invariably beneficial. Sexual reproduction is a very important (the most important factor, I would say) in evolution, and a quick look at the Love and Dating forum will show you that many people in the spectrum will probably never have children. Therefore, the mutation will most likely die with the "mutants".

But it has a tendency to appear even when the parents do not have it. Who knows? Maybe our numbers will increase exponentially and we will become like pandas: a species with no drive for reproduction. :lol:


So you're saying that we will somehow 'mulitiply exponentially' without procreating. And this will happen because the mutatation will just 'appear' anew in each generation with increasing frequency without being inherited. Which means something in the environment would have to be causing this to happen.

Must be the aspertame that they put in hamburgers. Aspergers is caused by asp-burgers!


I can't resist. I'm sorry.

Image



naturalplastic
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08 Aug 2013, 8:42 am

cyberdad wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
velocirapture wrote:
I have been on this site less than a year, and I feel this is at least the sixth or seventh time I have seen this question posed in some form. :roll:


Its gotta be atleast that number per year every year.

Different people keep reinventing this same wheel over,and over, and over again.


You have to appreciate many of us don't have the luxury or time to read every thread posted on WP.


You must be one of those wierdos who actually has a life!

Real life is only for people who can't face the internet!



Gamer
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08 Aug 2013, 9:15 am

People diagnosed with ASD are not a homogenous group, they just share some similar symptoms. Many hereditary factors can cause ASD-like qualities such as social withdrawal and obsession, including people who are hypersystemizers, people with immune problems, people with insulin problems, etc. Clearly, scientists, engineers and mathematicians have autistic traits such as introversion and sometimes narrow interest (but highly academic), but so do people with OCD, social anxiety, certain autoimmune disorder sufferers, etc. Screwing with someone's insulin sensitivity also causes people to behave more autistic. (people with diabetes tend to become more socially withdrawn after onset)

The point is that not everyone with ASD is hyperlogical, or even remotely capable of math or science. Some are in fact quite the opposite, clearly. A hypothetical scenario: Take these two extremes, a person with ASD who is the offspring of an engineer who is good at numbers, and the ASD offspring of a person with an autoimmune disorder who is obsessed with the weekly weather. I suspect there is a huge genetic difference between the two.



Opi
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29 Sep 2013, 10:26 am

i think it's entirely possible that AS spectrumites may evolve/are evolving into an NT-symbiotic life form.

as far as our genetic viability goes, we don't appear to be dying off, so there must be some pro-adaptive quality to our mutation.

as far being the next step in evolution, no, i don't see that. but the dispositions that accompany NT humans, including those that foster social cohesion and fluency, are not entirely adaptive. NT society has a lot of obvious, self-destructive tendencies. i believe they need us as much as we need them. hopefully we will both survive long enough to transcend the current status-quo.


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12 Mar 2014, 7:22 am

If autism is not a disease, what could it be except an evolutionary adaptation? Each and every organism is one of nature's experiments - an attempted evolutionary adaptation, and some adaptations are more effective than others. Furthermore the adaptation that began at conception continues to develop after birth. The organism itself always plays a role in the evolutionary process. Random-mutation-and-natural-selection may play a minor role in biological evolution, but biological systems are not random and the complexity achieved is no accident.
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RheyQUB
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12 Mar 2014, 7:39 am

I sometimes wonder if it's the opposite. An evolutionary throwback to a time when social clusters were much smaller than they are now and it was less likely to produce an autistic spectrum person.

Maybe we are the last remnants of our anti-social ape past. We definitely aren't the future.



Opi
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13 Mar 2014, 10:02 am

Frankly, after bouncing across the southwestern u.s. and encountering every two-legged predator in my worst nightmares, i think having Asperger's is a little like being a gazelle thrown out in a field with your legs hobbled and a big "eat me" sign pasted on your back.


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161 Aspie / 51 NT - Aspie Quiz (very likely an aspie)
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24 - HSP / ADD Quiz- 41, Inattention: 24, Hyperactive/Impulsive: 17
"Odd and different is beautiful" -- Tyra Banks


paxfilosoof
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13 Mar 2014, 11:28 am

Yes it is evolution in progress, our brain is much more sensitive at birth, because of this extra sensitivity, we can (if nurtured) have bigger brains.