why do some people consider low functioning inferior ?

Post Reply New Topic

The NTs designed the ASD spectrum as a linear concept with higher functioning closer to NTs and low functioning further away from NTs. Of course many Aspies choose to align their own functioning to this concept (me included). I would however, prefer to avoid the high:low gradient as I have no intention of acting nuerotypical to impress NTs except for employment purposes.

Having said that, Littlebee's analogy of comparing "lice infested homeless people" to LFA people is really quite disturbing.

Disturbing on multiple levels. Not just the comparison, but also:

* People don't end up homeless because they choose to be. They end up homeless for a lot of reasons.
* It is significantly harder to care for one's self, to eat well, to eat regularly, when homeless
* A lot of homeless people have mental illnesses and neurological disorders because it is generally harder to function in society when you're dealing with one of these things

So not only is she using this analogy to again say that "low-functioning" autistic people are inferior, she uses this analogy to indicate that she also considers homeless people inferior. Like she's nice enough to help them out but they're still eww, homeless.

Oops! I just remembered why I didn't want to reply to this post.

To remember ahead of time would be Work.

No, remembering stuff doesn't take work. It takes focus, and I was focusing on something else.

Responding to your posts takes work because they are hard to figure out.
It's not worth my effort to figure them out if I lose my curiosity about them or if I fail to find it a fun intellectual challenge worthy of thinking of a way to reply. Or if I just don't want to because something seems wrong.

Good feedback.Pain seems wrong, but that is contextual.Taking a splinter out of ones hand can hurt. What you wrote painted me in a bad light and completely false light, so it was interesting for me to reply, and I had a focus there. You don't care is all I can tell because you don't see me a person. You are doing the exact same thing with me you are telling me not to do with someone else, which thing I am not even doing. If I don't point it out I see the disingenuity factor on this thread increasing to the point that real learning cannot occur. Personally I have a thick skin, and am used to it, especially with people bashing me here on WP, but this is worth mentioning in the context of this discussion. Plus the image of inviting a lice infested person into my home and giving them a bath and getting to know them was ridiculous. Did you mean giving them a complete delousing and disposing of their clothes and buying them new ones? You could have asked me if I know any homeless people.

Every subject isn't always fun. The most valuable things I have ever done were in some way difficult. Work can be rewarding. I am a musician and I went to this jam and we were drinking and doing this one song Rudolph The Red Nosed Reindeer and everybody started dancing around in sheer joy and partying. That party changed my brain.But first there was work. I had to transition to try to play a song I didn't really know the right notes for. I realized about two days later that the party actually imprinted on me. I now know for a fact that partying can change ones brain if the dynamics are just right. Also curiosity is very important; however at this this jam there was just pure unadulterated fun. Now I have to go into a very cold room and search for some fast Christmas songs. I would not categorize this impending search as a form of work, but the focus is in some way connected to future pleasure, which can be interesting,so the curiosity factor...

Curiously, the one thing that is keeping me in focus here is the op.

I don't know what you are talking about.
All I did was try to express why LFA is not an inferior condition or way of being.
I can have my own opinions if I want.
Stop picking on me.
Don't use this reply as another opportunity to pick on me.

littlebee

Pointing out your manipulative, controlling, and even abusive behavior is not "bashing you." I am not sure what you mean by "real learning" because you have exposed more and more of your actual thinking as opposed to the flowery words you often use, and I certainly hope others are "really learning" what you are really like, if they haven't figured it out already.

Knowing people does not imply respect. Racists often claim they have black friends to deflect any inquiry into their racism. Homophobes often claim they have gay friends to deflect any inquiry into their homophobia. You claiming to know homeless people is just a deflection of inquiry into the rather problematic sentiments you've expressed about them. Your scornful rejection of helping a homeless person beyond interacting with them at work is far more indicative of your true attitudes than whether you know homeless people personally. I am not saying you should feel obligated to invite homeless people into your home. No one can help everyone. Rather, it's the way you expressed that rejection.

Marybird wasn't being disingenuous toward or about you. She didn't say the things you are saying she said. All she has done is say why being "LFA" is not inferior, and you respond with accusations that she does not see you as a person, that she painted you in a bad light and a false light, suggested that she was being disingenuous. All of this because she disagreed with you and then expressed regret posting to this thread. She has done exactly nothing to deserve the way you're treating her - the way you're bullying her. The way you are, in her words, picking on her.

I can't find a purer expression of your own disingenuity - someone disagrees with you and you play the victim and start the bullying at the same time. This is what you do. This is what you should stop doing. This is not a thing I am just making up to make you look bad this is a thing you are clearly doing. This is a thing you should stop doing.

Verdandi, Thank you for defending me and defending a principle.
You have a real gift for defending principles. It always amazes me.

Mary bird I Apologize I didn't know what was going for the past few days so I didn't relise what was going on and I'm sorry that you cannot continue to discuss your option because of this. Little bee I don't want to mark ageist you for your option but when you bully someone elce for sharing a diffrent option that crosses the line. Mary bird was merely trying to say that your posts are Long and sometimes can be confusing and hard to read. This is one of the reasons it's taking me longer to respond I don't want to miss read or mis interperpret anything.

It's OK jenisautistic. This is a good thread that you started. Sometimes conflicts happen.

I suppose I should not quit this thread because of a little communication difficulty, though a person does need to choose where to place his money. Anyway, there is some wonderful material here.

Below is what I wrote that caused quite a stir. I deliberately selected the example of a lice infested homeless person to illustrate my point about context because I felt the:other material was getting too emotionally charged, but yet the example that was not all all emotionally charged about choosing an extremely experienced doctor as opposed to a brand new intern doing his first operation did not seem to be getting the point across. Looking back, though, maybe I should have stuck to that example.

The key point in using the example of the homeless person is the lice infested part. I was not saying that all homeless people are lice infested (indeed most are not) or that I would not associate with a homeless person or even that I would not invite a homeless person to my home, but rather that I would not invite a lice-infested homeless person to my home (though after some past experiences I would now hesitate to invite any homeless person to my home, but again, each situation is unique))..Nor was I comparing a lice infested homeless person to an autistic person, which one person said outright I was doing and some others implied I was doing.

But note--and this is very interesting-- when I made the doctor analogy, people did not accuse me of saying autistic people are like an inexperienced doctor:-)

Below is the comment I made about homeless people, with a comment on what I wrote inserted in double parenthesis (( )):.

And here is the response that upset me quite a bit.



My bad for letting it get to me, which is a good case in point illustration about the value of remembering ahead of time. Interesting that ideas can actually change ones brain if there is understanding, but having a reaction does not, though it does further reinforce the tendency to again have the same kind of reaction. It is up to each person reading, if even interested in doing so, to determine the veracity of this axiom and apply it to himself in his own situation.

I should comment that to me being lice infested or addicted to crack is an inferior way of being despite whatever is going on in the mind's of such people, and I must note that a homeless person who is lice infested is to me inferior to a homeless person who is not lice infested or who is a heroin addict in the context of bringing that person into my home. Other may feel differently about inviting such a person into their home. The point is to illustrate context. In terms of the inherent human value of these people, they are all of equal value and a product of their conditioning as is most likely a sociopath a product of his conditioning. Someone has written here or on another thread something that suggests not to have compassion for a sociopath. I suppose this implies a belief in the death penalty. I will have to think about this.

You just can't help calling some people inferior, can you? Always grading and sorting while pretending you're not. I somehow doubt most people choose to have lice infest them, and given the resources to expunge such an infestation would likely do so as quickly as possible.

When I read littlebee's posts, I feel like, when he says inferior, he really means the opposite of better or preferable. And I agree with him, in this context, having lice would be inferior to the alternative. Not having it would be better and preferable. That is a judgement call that I am making; I am judging this hypothetical person with lice. The man with lice is inferior to the man without lice, if all else is equal. To disagree is to effectively say that whether or not one has lice is of no consequence, and this is simply not true.

I realize that the idea of calling anyone inferior for any reason automatically triggers a negative reaction for a lot of people, especially if the reasons for doing so are because of factors outside the judged persons control. It may seem cruel to say that a person born with cerebral palsy is inferior to an otherwise physically capable person, but it is a true statement. To say that these two states of being are equal is equivalent to saying that both states are both equally preferable. This is quite clearly not true. If you can come up with a list of people who would rather have cerebral palsy over being physically capable, I'll change my mind.

As of right now, the chance that a child will be born with, or later develop cerebral palsy is between .22% and .44% in western countries. If that rate were to somehow raise to 5%, I think we can agree that this world would be a worse place to be born, and live in. If we could find a way to prevent or cure cerebral palsy, I think we can agree that this world would be a better place to be born, and live in. Because of this, we must conclude that having cerebral palsy is, at best, a disadvantage. People who suffer from it gain no advantages from having the condition, with the possible exception of a better understanding, and greater empathy for other disabled people. But they'll also have a harder time empathizing with able-bodied people, due to lack of shared experience.

I do however, have a question for everyone here who absolutely refuses to use the term inferior to ever describe anyone: Is their any situation you can imagine where you'd describe a person this way? Does everyone really have equal value. And if they do, how on earth do you live your life with that mentality?

It's not a question of specific or accurate scaling of human function (cognitive or motor), it's about bad taste using the word inferior when it's totally unnecessary.

It's like declaring that black people are second class citizens and saying that to be a black person is inferior to being white because most white people would rather remain white than be black. I'm quite sure you wouldn't be so quick to declare it's fine to use inferior in that context.