Faking autism and Faking aspergers

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The duck analogy is quite pertinent, for example, I have webbed toes (ducks have such), I waddle under certain situations (ducks waddle), I paddle (ducks paddle), I lack feathers, but that's ok, I can sorta see how my hair can look like such from the description of ducks in my subjective opinion; I have a beak, sorta. That's four points I show of being a duck out of five, but the problem is, I don't know what a duck is supposed to look like. Without a professional telling me what one looks like (as I don't know what a duck looks like), and whether I am one or not; I'm unsure if I am a duck or not. It's not condescending, it's an analogy.

Now, the professionals base their work on Dr. Asperger's work, which explains the symptoms and how they manifest; these professionals came together and made this disorder called Asperger's--the power is given to them by the objective majority (see: politics), and they had to agree on which symptoms, how they manifest, and their severity, whether they're the same as Asperger's original work, etcetera. They defined it, and then taught other professionals how to diagnose it after explaining what it is.

Unless someone taught you how to diagnose such (though doctors cannot diagnose themselves; so say you haven't been assessed), your self-diagnosis means nothing to the majority; whether you have the disorder or not. The majority say this must be done, and this must be done to be that; there's nothing confusing here.

You first sentence is a fallacy.

It's a set of behavioural characteristics that manifest physically in how you interact with the world, yes. Of course with the DSM-IV-TR, but a professional uses such to aid in a diagnosis (they're also trained in how to read and apply it); the DSM-IV-TR isn't there for people to diagnose themselves (it even says it in the book). It's good to compare yourself to the book's criteria (better to read the description of such rather than the criteria itself), take some online tests, search out your developmental history, etcetera, but this doesn't make you an "aspie" no matter how much you think you fit it. It points one in a direction, but said direction might not be the right one.

I haven't met any morons on Wrong Planet. What's with the name calling?





Dude, I'm listening. Tell me where can a parent who has diagnosed their own child with Aspergers get Asperger services for that child with only their self-diagnosis and none other?

I was thinking that even if the faker said they had autism or an ASD, they would be able to fake it online much easier than in real life, the same as I can fake normal as I am pressured to do in some situations but there is always some little thing that lets me down; there will always be little things that that would show the person is neurotypical rather than an ASD person.

The thing is, once people realize the person has lied about their ASD, how would you ever be able to trust anything else they ever said? Lying is also an insult to the receiver's intelligence and I can see no good in it at the end of the day.

I would much rather someone said to me, I think I have an ASD because of this or that set of symptoms or behaviours and were honest about not actually knowing for sure. I think people would be more likely to help them in seeking out a diagnosis or offering support whereas if someone is found to be lying, then the trust and respect hit zero.

I would think that since this is a board that welcomes people on the spectrum and people who have an interest in autism and related ASDs, then they would feel comfortable with being honest from the start and have no need to fake anything whatsoever.

I am self-diagnosed, but I have not really benefited socially from being self-diagnosed. I have not told many NTs, and anyone who thinks Aspies are into "attention seeking" and want "attention" from a diagnosis dont understand aspies very well! The idea just makes me laugh..

I have benefited in one way though and that is to have met other aspies to compare myself to and see the similarities. And, be friends with.

I would like a professional diagnosis but I am an adult and I dont have 300 euros ($600) jingling around in my pocket... if anyone objects to me being self-diagnosed, then I invite them to pay for my diagnosis.

Yes indeed

I don't know, and one would have to know the reason for such. Sometimes it's psychology to say things, the usual "Einstein" rhetoric to make people feel better about themselves, or something (I don't see how that'd make someone feel better, but to each their own).

It's not really that important to me; it's pretty much the only way I know how to interact, contesting points and whatnot, so this can be seen as my way of "socializing" and interacting with people. By finding a point I can latch onto and talk about, and argue till its end is all I really know how to do other than resorting to rhyming metaphor.

The point I've grabbed is that self-diagnosis doesn't equate to knowing you have the disorder with certainty, and that point is correct, but it seems to generate discussion [by those who think that a professional diagnosis doesn't generate certainty too], so that's cool.

There's nothing personal here, and everyone is here for their own reasons.

I will admit to faking being human, but after 61 years, most are.

For children coming up today, danielismyname and newportBeachDude are right, Thinking AS is not enough when there are other things, that might seem the same, or be combined. A good Dx may be scarce and expensive, but so is the toy they just have to have at Christmas, and parents do the deal.

Five years ago, or ten, I would have little faith in a Dx, for few were trained, in a new field. Now we have mainstream centers, and reviewed Dx's. There are some dependable workers in the field.

I like the best, so I would like to visit Attwood, but I do not fly, so I may not.

All Aspies are different, just like humans. I think the young can benefit from treatment, of some types, and that calls for knowing what is being treated. Self Dxed does not belong in a treatment program or taking drugs to self medicate.

My youth did have problems, at a time when nothing was know, which made it worse, for that does not stop people from doing something, which today would be called wrong.

There is some help for the young, so take it. Older, knowing helps, but a Dx in my case would be meaningless. Who cares how an Old Coot got that way, just stay off his lawn or he will chase you with his cane.

Most old people are antisocial recluses. Most of the symptoms fit old people, but we are not expected to go out and be social, so no one notices. Many of the things that agravated me no longer exist, a range of behavior is accepted with age.

A Dx is important because this stuff does wear off, we out grow it, it is a development delay in children, and we might be twenty years late, but we get there. How much education, what job skills you have, become very important when you are 42, becoming as normal as the strange people around, and need to make a living. The social problem goes away, but economics stays.

Navigating the social problems alone is hard, and the effect is lower lifetime earnings. Education and job skills are more important than eye contact and being a social teen. That you might never get, but most of us do work, and work, year after year, and it is measured in how much we make.

A Dx will get you the education, get it.

For those who will never work, a Dx will keep you from being homeless, and get some State support to keep you eating.

The Dx is only a tool, no one else can tell you how to live, you still have to come to terms with being yourself. Starving and living under a bridge is not the best life. Working at the bottom of the income scale is not the best life.

Odds are most of you will live, become old, and making more along the way affects quality of life more than anything else. I know, at twenty I would not listen, but now, education is available on line, and you should prepare for the possibiity that twenty years from now you might be a very different person, and education and jobs skills will be what counts.

I was never very employable, but IT, I became self employed. Now it is web marketing, the work world is changing, but it still takes knowledge. Everything I do, the tools I use, did not exist five years ago. Learning to learn, keeping up in your field, is what works.

I think the best of a Dx is learning what it is you are leaving behind. I, and other older people who came here, let go of burdens we thought were personal, and found there was no reason we carried this through life. Learn what you can let go.

Un treated, mistreated, it can cause worse problems, which become real and lifetime.

You do not socialize well, and have some strong interests, it is a personality type, deal with it.

You still need an education, or you will go through life uneducated, and poor.

Sorry, but this is a dangerous line to take if I may say so. Professionals are the ones we need as a compulsory part of the support structure - especially when we are struggling to cope for whatever the reason. Of course we need to weed out the quacks who want to do nothing except hand out meds by the handful and hope you go away (see some of them believe me!).

The professionals are the ones who are trained to interpret the DSM-IV correctly, and are the only ones who can give a proper diagnosis.

if you take offense to ppl telling you that you need a DX...... then you probably do on some level.

Im not offended at all by people who suggest I should get a DX. It makes sense to get a DX. I just wish it wasnt so expensive.

it does annoy me though if people would think I would bother to do this for a laugh or for attention, or because Im silly and dont know what AS is. I know perfectly well what it is.

I do think though that I have the capacity to judge for myself that certain tendencies I have are in accordance to characteristics found in AS and Autistic people.

Why would anyone want to do that? I work hard every day to avoid doing something stupid. I want people to see me as normal and intelligent.

you forget that if the plane crashes, the pilot will share the same fate as the passengers. This is not the case with incompetent psychologists.



and this, is the crux of the argument in my opinion. Those diagnosed may have been also been convinced and curtailed by that very diagnosis. Their awe and intimidation of a label placed by someone they admire and a science they revere might just stifle any other response from the diagnosed (especially with anxious, desperate, fumbling or dominating parents) and the diagnosed might never dream or TRY to do what those of us with no such diagnosis or implied limitations stumble blindly, boldly and achieve - never knowing we could not, or should not have, according to the 'experts'.




I agree.

Just to mention - my thread isn't about the issue of self-diagnosis among those who think they have autism/aspergers. Instead, it is about the intentional faking of autism/aspergers among those who have other psychiatric conditions (such a combination of one or more debilitating personality disorders, bipolar, etc).

Related might be the intentional exaggeration of autistic/aspergers symptoms (among those with lesser degrees of autism/aspergers) for the purpose of (1) getting others to leave you alone, that is, receding from the demands of the social world, (2) getting sympathy from others, (3) sympathy from doctors, (4) the enjoyment of playing/acting a role.

For example, say in a social situation you're having or developing difficulty. You may then start exaggerating your usual symptoms, as an excuse to get away from the social situation.

I remember a person in school since elementary school. She was very very social, fun, funny, smart, unique, etc. Then in high school, early, she began not looking at anyone, walking in the halls very rapidly, carrying a backpack fully of 5 times the usual amount of books to and from class (to avoid going to her locker, and to have all her books with her, it appeared), she would rarely respond to people greeting her, and so on. She did not develop Aspergers. Rather, the process was that she struggled socially to some extent, and was very sensitive to the high school social dynamic, and her response was to kind of give up, and recede into her studies and not bother looking at anyone, and just forget about everyone. It was easier for her this way, rather than deal with the anxiety that most people face in high school with the social dynamic.

sinsboldly,

I'm sure you could sue a professional if you so wish, especially if there's incompetence/negligence involved.

You second statement is an assumption; people seek out a diagnosis for they have trouble doing these things, and to meet such, one must have trouble with at least one of these things: social interaction, schooling, and/or work. It's not the other way around unless one is intentionally malingering, and this is morally unsound for a number of reasons that are self-evident. A diagnosis allows one to understand why one cannot do certain things, and they can then allow themselves to fit society how they wish to rather than society telling them how they should for there's nothing wrong with them. A diagnosis benefits those who have the disorder and are genuinely affected by it negatively (which is everyone who is diagnosed).

Possibly she developed Avoidant Personality Disorder, or Schizophrenia, or a number of things. She might have had AS to start with, but regressed in her functioning when presented with the high school environment. Still, the problems of someone who chooses to withdraw like that are very real, and even if they dont have autism or aspergers, that doesnt make social withdrawal an invalid thing.

Last edited by zen_mistress on 25 Mar 2008, 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.