So we're unpleasant, period?

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I never had bad hygiene, so that part doesn't fit me. I also worked on my posture and today it's better than that of most NT's, I walk and stand like a model. The public nosepicking is something I would never, ever do.

A lot fits me too, but some parts are just plain wrong in my case.

Neurotypicals do think that they are better than us and accuse us of being irritating. I have not found people I can truly relate to and would want to be friends. I just ended finding poeple who are only out for what they can get and that is of the neurotypical type. Always denies it and never apologised for annoying. Decent people, salt of the earth type I would have to go the extra mile other than that find the usual intolerant idiots and this is my experience here.

It would be helpful to have a similar list of traits written from the opposite point of view, things that NT's do which those who are less NT find annoying. Then, when my more NT friends did something I found irritating, I could look it up on the list and attribute it to their brain wiring. It would be like, oh, don't take it personally, she does that because she is on the spectrum of what they call "neurotypical."

It seems to be, at least in part, a matter of numbers. If those we call NT were a minority, we (or another group), the majority, would be able to come up with a list of differences. It would also be easy to put a negative spin on it, and call them unpleasant.

Start of such a list:

Lack of attention to detail.
Poor concentration; easily distracted by social input.
Difficulty working alone; needs, or at least prefers, a "team" to function effectively.
Masks true emotions; displays a level of dishonesty about feelings, especially strong feelings.
Frivolous or superficial much of the time.
Difficulty trusting others.

However, would it be helpful to put a negative spin on the list? There is a negative spin to the list at the beginning of this thread. Words such as "difficulty," "inappropriately," "pouting," and the like occur regularly. Whoever put this list together apparently does not like the ones being described. There is a marked lack of compassion. No wonder the list is so depressing to read.

Riversong, it is a question of numbers, of course. But not only that.

1. It's also a question of self-control. While an NT is able to unmask their feelings if they want to, for example, we're not able to mask ours enough. And so on for many of the rest of the traits.

2. And besides, we Aspies admit quite often on WP that we ourselves don't stand other Aspies because they have these traits on the list. I certainly don't like people who have some of these traits (mainly, people who fail to call me with condolences when someone in my family dies, and general lack of empathy and sympathy, not to mention lack of hygiene, irrelevant remarks that are also hurtful, verbosity, etc.)

So it's not so absolute that it's just a question of being in a minority.

How do you know that your friends are non-autistic? I've gained a bit of insight into some of my closer friends and their childhoods (mostly out of curiosity), and I would say that there certainly is that possibility. Of course I'm in a horrible position to judge this. The point is that it doesn't really matter whether or not they are on the spectrum; they are other people, regardless of their spectrum qualities.

You can make your traits work for you. I've found that you can be forgiven for a lot of social mistakes if people know that you are a good, caring person underneath. How you show is going to vary from individual to individual. I think finding a non-threatening environment where others are less likely to judge you simply for being different is a really good first start.

Some people on the spectrum can relate to others by an seemingly innate desire to make others happy. I had started a thread on this a few weeks back and was surprised at the sheer number folks for which this was true. I think for many of us, it's a strength of the condition and should be fully exploited for establishing and building relationships.

I could go on, but my 10-month old is crawling into things. Maybe I'll post a bit later in the thread.

You CAN change. That is what you don't understand.

Be calm and focus on being friendly, funny, and ACTING outgoing. Being outgoing doesn't come naturally to us, so we have to ACT friendly.

Understand you will fail, fail again, fail again and continue to fail over possibly years. Learn from your mistakes. Eventually, you will be able to relate to people and keep a job.

I'm almost in my fifties, Kevin, after 30 years of therapies and extremely intensive work on myself. Unlike you, I'm AFTER all that, not before.

That's going to be true for most people. There are going to be a couple (or possibly more) that we don't relate to at all. For me, I don't relate whatsoever to anxiety and depression (lucky me, I guess).

I never considered myself unpleasant. That's, like, all I came to think when reading this topic.

I think of myself as undesirable, but not unpleasent...

Inability to be alone for extended periods of time.
Tends to form abusive relationships because that is preferable to being alone.
Symbolism always trumps substance.
Difficulty in engaging in deep thought.
Prefers to operate at a superficial level.
Lacking in any real individuality or independent thought.

I've reached the point where I can relate to people and be in normal relations, but I don't think it was worth the price. I developed very much during my late teens because I forced myself to learn and I also have a somewhat light AS combined with high intelligence and an intuitive personality to begin with.

What happened to me was that I was burned out from all this learning. I lost my will to get a normal job and a normal life because this struggle made me realize things. For the first time in my life I fully embrace my AS sides. Of course if I go out in town for a night I can relate to others perfectly, everything I learned just switches on automatically. I can even keep this up for a few weeks and sometimes even months, but eventually I start feeling I have other needs as well. My life was so badly thrashed while growing up and I have zero education, I have no possibility of ever redoing what I missed because we're talking years and years of structured schooling. This put me in a position where I, despite my social skills, had to make a choice and look for an alternative way of living. Embracing my aspieness became natural in doing so.

People who never met me and never talked to me assume I'm "low functioning" because I don't work, but it couldn't be further from the truth. I'm low functioning because instead of getting through even basic school I spent all my energy trying and failing until I mastered the social codes. I couldn't focus on anything else other than learning that so what I learned was to overcome my aspieness but I didn't automatically get an education and a future life in the process. I CAN theoretically have a job but just like an NT who's 25 and failed at all education I can't just start over and get a top education just like that, and the jobs with no requirements pay less than I get on permanent sick-pay anyway.

It's not that black and white, it's not simple. Overcoming your social difficulties doesn't necessarily mean a golden life with a normal, perfect job. Personally, my dark years pushed me across the point of no return. I'm enlightened and socially functioning now but I'm trapped by a sick pay and the fact I have no education. I can't give up my sick-pay just to redo years of school and maybe get an average job at age 32. If I was offered an alternative job, in media or something, I could definitely do it, but I have no CV so looking for something is futile.

that was a great list...thanks for posting it. Even though you think all of those things are terrible, many of them could be used to your advantage. I don't know, just trying to be positive. It's beats being depressed.

I've been stalked
That was the best list of traits I've read.

Greentea wrote:

I was told that this was one of my faults. I always thought I was being constructive, but was told that I was being hypercritical. (I believe the actual term was "bleeding all over the paper" in reference to the red ink in the pen I used.) I did learn a way to deal with it in a Technical Writing course, though. The text suggested that if I list the things I like about someone's writing first, then they're more likely to listen to what I have to say about the things that need improvement without getting bent out of shape. It worked! The last time I was asked to critique someone's writing, they thanked me for my help rather than getting upset with me. Of course, I also warned them that others sometimes thought me hypercritical, so maybe that helped, too.

Regards,

Patricia

It is creepy how many of those negative traits I fill. But I have seen the positive traits list and I fill many of those as well.