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JessicaDayla
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06 Jul 2009, 12:14 pm

timeisdead wrote:
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There is also the "self-fulfilling prophecy effect": in terms of future expectations, people ear "gifted" and think "s/he could become a brilliant scientist, a college treacher, who knows?"; if they ear "Asperger's Syndrome", some will think "s/he never will have a job and will be living with their parents until they die".* And, because people assume that, these can become true

The more people underestimate you, the more you can get away with without any ounce of suspicion. You can take advantage of that in order to have what you want.


Very true, lived my life by that rule myself.



Tantybi
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06 Jul 2009, 12:19 pm

fiddlerpianist wrote:
I also wanted to add that I think that many of us older folk in the "borderlands" of AS/autism benefited greatly by the fact that no one was diagnosing AS when we were growing up. For our quirkier traits, we were able to overcome them and adapt without too much external intervention. I realize that this wasn't the case for many, and that I was very lucky.

I have no doubt that being seen as a gifted child instead of a child with a development disorder was incredibly important for me to develop self-confidence and optimism. Even though I believe that giftedness and ASDs are fundamentally caused by the same differences, I think that AS should not be sought as a diagnosis unless it's needed.


I'm kinda the same way. I was never thought of as gifted as much as really smart. But I think if I had some early intervention with some of the social etiquettes that I would have done better in the workforce. As for my daughter, I'm seeking to get her diagnosed. Well, she is once we are able to rule out hearing for certain. She's 2 years old, and it's so obvious that the Psychologist is very comfortable seeing it as either Aspergers or a serious hearing problem with possibility of Aspergers. One thing with her though is she is overactive (as opposed to my underactive), and I'd rather have her diagnosed before school so to help prevent dealing with principals and teachers that decided she was ADHD, put it on her record for every school in her future to see and assume no matter what I say otherwise, and then try to tell me she needs to be on psychostimulants to attend that school. What made it worse for me is that my mother must think I'm a blazing idiot because she sees me with zero credibility. Like I have negative credibility with her. If I say it, then it must be wrong only because I said it. I sensed she did that when I was concerned about my daughter possibly being Aspergers. She kept hinting that my daughter was ADHD just because she's so hyper and can destroy a clean house in a matter of seconds. It was when my mother, a school guidance counselor, told me, "You're going to have to get her on some meds before she can go to school," did I decide to get a real diagnosis for her (and I did bring up that some people think ADHD but I think within the context of it all it might be Aspergers, so it wasn't a totally bias diagnosis except that most of the information about my daughter's behaviors came from me, but considering I'm probably Aspie too, I'm sure it was the most accurate description the psychologist could get from someone else besides my daughter).



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06 Jul 2009, 12:23 pm

TPE2 wrote:
Tantybi wrote:
Even then, there really is no point in the gifted programs unless you are attempting to get into a college like Harvard or plan on applying for academic scholarships (which are few and far between in comparison to athletic scholarships).


I suppose that the ideia of "gifted programs" is teaching the "gifted children" in subjects that they consider intelectually stimulating, instead of in subject that they will consider too boring.


Most of those intellectually stimulating subjects though can be done for college credit. It would practice better time management.



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06 Jul 2009, 12:28 pm

There is no clear point where the spectrum begins. You could argue I was just gifted as a child, but now I seem to have lost most of the high intelligence stuff, and I'm just left with quirks and problems.
These things are a bit too positive to be AS, as AS is a disorder. These things are mostly good things.

As for doing better if you're told you're gifted and not AS, sometimes it's true and sometimes it's not. The best teachers I've had (those who have got good results and respect from most of the class) believed in their students abilities. However, I had one teacher who thought I was stupid, so I became determined to do really well to prove how wrong he was so he could look stupid.


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06 Jul 2009, 12:40 pm

timeisdead wrote:
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There is also the "self-fulfilling prophecy effect": in terms of future expectations, people ear "gifted" and think "s/he could become a brilliant scientist, a college treacher, who knows?"; if they ear "Asperger's Syndrome", some will think "s/he never will have a job and will be living with their parents until they die".* And, because people assume that, these can become true

The more people underestimate you, the more you can get away with without any ounce of suspicion. You can take advantage of that in order to have what you want.

I can see why that may work, but I made the opposite experience at various schools. I had people shun me, bully me, try everything to expel me, grade me badly and treat me like a 'lowlife' because they thought I was everything but smart/ret*d and they didn't even yet know the real label but only created their own/labelled me unofficially and unprofessionally. I never got out of it because people's expectations and opinions decided what I could do and what not even if I held everything against it to my best (and autistic) abilities.


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07 Jul 2009, 6:47 am

timeisdead wrote:
Quote:
There is also the "self-fulfilling prophecy effect": in terms of future expectations, people ear "gifted" and think "s/he could become a brilliant scientist, a college treacher, who knows?"; if they ear "Asperger's Syndrome", some will think "s/he never will have a job and will be living with their parents until they die".* And, because people assume that, these can become true

The more people underestimate you, the more you can get away with without any ounce of suspicion. You can take advantage of that in order to have what you want.



This may not work to an advantage so much. For instance. I have good academic skills, and while preferring routines, am far, far less rigid than when younger. However, due to difficulties with self-care that I am slow at acquiring these skills, I have had to seek out assistance. This results in a report getting written, and now this info makes them completely not think I could ever be a teacher of math and science (which wasn't my real career objective, but was a good second choice to say due to my fears about people's doubts about me stemming from stereotypes - boy was I right and in a spectacularly depressing way).

How can I now go to the college advising center for help in my courses and later in registering for the MCAT for medical school, if they think me unfit to be a teacher based on how I interviewed a psychological professional while sick and tried to live on my own without independent living skills?! I mean it's not like I'd try to go to medical school before acquiring those skills, since the schedule is rather demanding. Whilst it would certainly be a step up, I am accustomed to demanding schedules, such as in high school taking the academic classes, four conservatory classes, four community college classes, AP classes, and so forth, graduating high school with about 35 credits or so not counting the AP credits that transferred. In fact, I have such the reputation and the record amongst them at that institution that I have reservations about even attending, for fear that they will kick me out, based on the report describing the state of affairs my life was in at the time.


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07 Jul 2009, 6:48 am

timeisdead wrote:
Quote:
There is also the "self-fulfilling prophecy effect": in terms of future expectations, people ear "gifted" and think "s/he could become a brilliant scientist, a college treacher, who knows?"; if they ear "Asperger's Syndrome", some will think "s/he never will have a job and will be living with their parents until they die".* And, because people assume that, these can become true

The more people underestimate you, the more you can get away with without any ounce of suspicion. You can take advantage of that in order to have what you want.



This may not work to an advantage so much. For instance. I have good academic skills, and while preferring routines, am far, far less rigid than when younger. However, due to difficulties with self-care that I am slow at acquiring these skills, I have had to seek out assistance. This results in a report getting written, and now this info makes them completely not think I could ever be a teacher of math and science (which wasn't my real career objective, but was a good second choice to say due to my fears about people's doubts about me stemming from stereotypes - boy was I right and in a spectacularly depressing way).

How can I now go to the college advising center for help in my courses and later in registering for the MCAT for medical school, if they think me unfit to be a teacher based on how I interviewed a psychological professional while sick and tried to live on my own without independent living skills?! I mean it's not like I'd try to go to medical school before acquiring those skills, since the schedule is rather demanding. Whilst it would certainly be a step up, I am accustomed to demanding schedules, such as in high school taking the academic classes, four conservatory classes, four community college classes, AP classes, and so forth, graduating high school with about 35 credits or so not counting the AP credits that transferred. In fact, I have such the reputation and the record amongst them at that institution that I have reservations about even attending, for fear that they will kick me out, based on the report describing the state of affairs my life was in at the time.


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07 Jul 2009, 7:42 am

I have two granddaughters who are really amazing for three and five year olds.

Both of their parents and all four of their grandparents (ahem) had IQs in the top one percent.

This is going to be interesting. :D



wildgrape
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07 Jul 2009, 7:43 am

I am both gifted and autistic, and so is my son, although he has a very different temperament than I do.

fiddlerpianist said:

Quote:
I also wanted to add that I think that many of us older folk in the "borderlands" of AS/autism benefited greatly by the fact that no one was diagnosing AS when we were growing up. For our quirkier traits, we were able to overcome them and adapt without too much external intervention. I realize that this wasn't the case for many, and that I was very lucky.

I have no doubt that being seen as a gifted child instead of a child with a development disorder was incredibly important for me to develop self-confidence and optimism. Even though I believe that giftedness and ASDs are fundamentally caused by the same differences, I think that AS should not be sought as a diagnosis unless it's needed.


I emphatically agree with this. If I started school in this day and age, I would be immediately diagnosed with autism/AS, and I doubt very much that this would be a benefit. When my parents went to parent/teacher meetings, they heard that I made the least effort possible, continually disturbed the class, and that I was a genius. At least one teacher actually used the word genius (ah, the good old days! Now it would merely be gifted I suppose.) I suspect that being characterized as a genius does more to bolster a kid's confidence in what he can accomplish in the future than being told he/she has Asperger's disorder.