Signing off

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I too will be leaving soon.

Since joining in 2006, everyone here
has a tendency to make fun of each other
in the least respectful fashion.

To be honest, I would mind, because to do that I would have to dig through acres of unfamiliar threads looking for stuff that thoroughly upsets me. I don't have the time, or the energy for it...but plenty of people know it is happening, more still know that something has gone "off" lately, even if they can't quite put their finger on it.

If you are not one of them, then you just haven't seen it yet is all.

M.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand what people are getting worked up about. If you want to see WP as a group of NT haters / bashers, go ahead, but IMO you're kidding yourself. For every person who gets an Aspie superiority complex, there are 5 people to put him in his place.

People with Aspie superiority complexes are a little like the Christian Right in the U.S. Just because they speak the loudest and most obnoxiously doesn't make them the majority opinion for their group. You have a right to get upset and put them in their place, but for heaven's sake, don't emigrate to a different country.

Too late. I just married a French guy 3 yrs ago and moved to France. Really. And I'm doing relatively well with all the cultural differences. And I get intolerance all the time here (hello! it's France! ), but discrimination is wrong if one person does it or a hundred do it. Numbers do not dilute the issue. I am simply stating that hate speech is intolerable for those it is aimed at, whether it's from aspies or Frenchmen, and you asserting that I am the problem is like killing the messenger. Sure, I may give up and go away. But the real problem will remain. It's just easier to discourage one woman than try to sort this out as a community. And somehow, I'm being perceived by some as worse than the folks who say things like:

Wow.

I suspect the problem is simply that the community has gotten a whole lot bigger. With that comes more good and more bad. When you see hate speech, you should absolutely call it out. I do every time I see it, even if it's meant as a joke. I despise labeling people as nouns (neurotypicals, Aspies, etc). I find it oversimplifies matters, so I avoid it wherever possible. But you will find hate speech wherever you go, whether you stay or you leave. If you leave, you are giving up.

Maybe Wrong Planet isn't like the "good old days" of 4 years ago, but nothing really stays the same. I mean, if you aren't getting enjoyment out of coming here anymore, don't force yourself to come here. It is just unfortunate that a loud few are getting to you. However, to characterize this place as a breeding ground for NT bashers I believe is very inaccurate.

Then it is disappointing that you are uninterested in helping to change what you are complaining so vehemently yet vaguely about.


M.

I will not be leaving here, but my posts are generally short and fairly infrequent. I agree with what has been posted here against Aspie superiority and NT bashing.

I hardly need to spend time and energy I have not got citing you examples, when you, so kindly, hand me an example of a moderator, in the manner of one addressing a subordinate, trying to manipulate an issue into silence rather than accepting, facing and resolving it.

Let me give you an opportunity for further similar benevolence.

You complained earlier that people were complaining, but not offering constructive solutions, totally disregarding the fact that I had just detailed one:



Would you be the first moderator to have the humility, honesty and honour to support this as an experiment in re-establishing the formerly egalitarian tone of Wrongplanet for the good of all?

If not, why not?

Semantic duelling dependent on unreasonable demands will not keep Wrongplanet safe and functional for ALL who want or need a free, egalitarian AS community as a bastion against all who would exploit control and contain us for expediency's sake...

...and beginning to develop NT style control dynamics and social heirarchies within Wrong Planet will not keep us free and egalitarian...

You may think of your moderator status as a "higher rank" that defines you as somehow "better" than those around you - but, I can assure you, it won't protect you when the "Parents, Carers and Other Predators" organisations start to insist that, unless we can cope with mainstream education, work and accomodation, we need institutional care and menial work during a depression (music to any government's ears), though a free community of autonomous Aspies Auties and supporters standing together as equals just might...

Think very carefully about that.

M.

My turn to say:

"WOW!!"

Some people may think that you and I are actually on different pages with all this, but not so.

Creating a pecking order, and uniting against a (perceived) common enemy, are all part of the very same group dynamics that most Aspies and Auties cannot function effectively within...

...it's one of THE most significant social differences between us and the NT...

So what is the sense in letting that flourish unchecked here?

M.

@makura

You really should learn to understan what a moderater does, the moderater is suppossed to oversee not call out mech who was merely stating a correct opinion and it is right becaue mods in sme communiities create a pecking order an as soon as a lower member questions them they immediately start waving the ban hammer or let their cose subordinates flame them and humiliate them.

I think what your doing is in fact quite unbelieble I have been on many forums since the age of 12 and have never ever seen a mod call out a poster's opinion in such a rude way. remember though mech knows alex personally and I think after reading some of alex's work that he would feel a bit ill at seeng at what WP is turning into

I don't know why makuranososhi is recieving criticism, since my time here he's done nothing but gentely push people in the right direction, he doesn't make a big deal when people do break rules and he seems to avoid escalating the situation as much as possible. All he is doing here is asking why you feel the way you do, it's neither rude or spiteful. The fact he is engaging with you should be seen a compliment, he's listening to what you say after all, instead of just childishly dismissing it.

Thank you so much Steve.

I must point out though, that I am not sure I actually *know* Alex as such...when I came across him I hadn't got a clue who he was until later. But, at the time, we were both standing up to the exact kind of thing that is beginning to happen here on WP, so it seems a safe bet that he wouldn't be too thrilled by it?

At the end of the day though, it's not about what Alex would like (or even what I would like and feel comfortable with) it's about the desperate need to have a United, Autonomous Autistic community to show to the world, and protect us all by giving us a strong voice at the table...and we cannot have that unless we find a viable alternative to the pecking orders and group dynamics most of us cannot handle...

...if WP cannot sort that out, or simply does not want to, then we need a new community that *can* and *does* want to...for your sake, my sake, Alex's sake and even makuranososhi's sake, simply because the majority of Auties are not comfotable enough with conventional group dynamics to be able to tolerate them and particupate.

M.

Stevee, I appreciate your comments but I disagree. I am well aware of my duties as a moderator here; however, I feel that some members do not wish to fulfill their responsibilities. I would ask how I have called her out rudely - I asked for help on the subject she requested and was flatly refused, at which I expressed disappointment. At no time has she been attacked, insulted, abused, diminished or ignored - my comments dealt specifically with her decision.

Yet that is what is sought by allowing hate speech against NTs and pursuing the course of behavior that has been suggested. How contradictory. And while I appreciate your invitation... I don't believe that your rotating solution is a good one and will not support it. Having an active membership who is involved in reporting and patrolling the site's content is more effective in my mind than finding people with the time, interest and consistency on a quarterly basis, and any sort of continuity in approach would be lost. This isn't something I sought out; I was asked to take on the addition responsibility, and am glad to do so. So in all honesty, I think a blanket implementation of your suggestion is a bad idea. Being a moderator makes me no better than anyone else; if anything, more is demanded. I'm am unsure of the point of your "parents, careers, and other predators" comment - would you explain? You feel that an independent body of those on the spectrum -and their supporters- is required, yet the supporters aren't being protected and encouraged here? That doesn't make sense to me, and I feel that the same goal is better achieved by establishing a connection bridging the gap, not digging trenches and defending positions. I have seen no example of these 'control dynamics' you refer to, so without explanation I am unable to respond to this point in your post. You infer tone in my earlier response when I express genuine disappointment that you could not be bothered to be involved in something that you were so critical of... it is frustrating, to say the least.


M.

Provided you also acknowledge that the fact that I am engaging with him should also be seen as a compliment.

He is only another Aspie, just like me, and my equal in all things.

M.

Not you did not, you asked me to spend many hours that I do not have to spare, looking through reams of threads, for control dynamics that invariably extend across several posts and often threads...all of which thoroughly upset me even to look at...

Semantic manipulation will not solve anything...






Possibly why I have never advocated hate speech of ANY kind?

But nice try at derailing with invalid premise



Well it does seem to BE the only available solution to eradicating the pecking order dynamics that are evolving here and becoming a permanent barrier to many Auties being able to participate at all.



Doesn't that just translate as "a membership who is prepared to support and uphold the existing moderators perception of their own elite status - ANOTHER permanent barrier to many Auties being able to participate at all.



Then you are not yet beyond salvage.



Now this IS where we get to *the point*, and it is the only real point in town.

Nobody wants to look at it (including me), but the world, as we have known it, is heading down the toilet at Mach I. Barring a miracle, the Western World is heading into a depression that will make the 30's look like a Bing Crosby movie.

There will be less, and less, of everything to go around, and those, increasingly scarce, resources will be allocated based on status within "the tribe" or ability to attract sympathy from "the tribe".

As autistics we are inclined to be straight "F" students in both subjects...at least within the wider community.

Currently, the most influential lobbies relating to Autism are parent/professional based, and even at their very best have best interests incompatible with ours.

Yes it would be nice to think that we could just go out into the wider world and try to make friends with these people, and they would immediately see that they should defend our real best interests instead...

But it DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY...

The people with power in these organisations don't even always believe what they are saying themselves...but there are MEGA MILLIONS riding on it...so that they will defend it with their lives if they have to...and they couldn't really care less if that meant shipping every one of us off in cattle trucks for "special handling" at best...but now? When people are looking at losing their jobs, the roofs over their heads?

Doesn't bear thinking of.

The only antidote is to have a strong community of our own, under our control, not theirs, and the more supporters we can draw to that community from anywhere the better...as long as we have plenty of auties too.

However, developing a tribal pecking order and all that goes with it acts as a permanent barrier to many, perhaps even MOST, Auties being able to participate at all. Because the pure truth is that the only way Auties can tolerate a conventional social heirarchy is by throwing their weight around dysfunctionally at the top of it, or convincing themselves they are manipulating those who do...the rest of us just AVOID.

The silly thing is that we are far better than the NT at egalitarian situations, and CAN make them work...but regardless, unless we nip the pecking order dynamics in the bud, there will not be a big enough community to make a difference. The bigger the community we can show to the world the more chance we have of some voice in our own fates.



Do you think I never EVER saw that particular rationalisation game before?

*NEWSFLASH*

When people criticise things it is often because they find them bad.

When people find something bad it is perfectly normal not to wish to be involved in it, even on your whims...

Now you can distort what I am saying, or try to rationalise it away to your hearts content...doesn't make any difference to me...but if you do, I can promise you that, within 10 years, you will see for yourself that all I am saying is right and bitterly rue the day you disregarded that.

M.

Last edited by mechanima on 25 Jul 2009, 9:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.