Aspergers without NLD

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The way you just described yourself sounds like classic AS. Having AS does not change one's desire to connect with people at all. Some people are more driven, some less. That's true of everybody in the world. I was able to eventually connect with others my age, but it took a lot of time and patience. I was very lucky in that I was able to wait until I felt comfortable doing it. I'm still not entirely comfortable socializing, but I'm a lot better than I used to be.

John Robison describes this in Look Me In the Eye as well. (Sorry to sound like a broken record on this thread with regards to this book, but I just read the book and found it to be extremely helpful, especially for those of us who consider ourselves "borderline AS.") While there were some things in that book I didn't particular associate with, there were a surprising number that I did.


There was one study done which seems to indicate that AS/NLD is the result of a "right brain deficit" whereas classic autism was more the result of a "left brain deficit," though I think it's much more complicated than this. Note that this was just one study, as far as I know. That evidence is far from conclusive. I believe it's more of a connectivity difference than necessarily a hemisphere deficit.

Regardless, I think you're getting too mired in the details. There really isn't a clear understanding of where NLD ends and AS begins. Both diagnoses deal with effects, not causes. If there is a similar root cause, it may manifest itself very, very differently between individuals.

I think about AS this way. You have the whole personality spectrum of people in the world. With AS, you still have the same personality spectrum, it's just that there are neurological differences which make expression (both inwardly and outwardly) of that personality quite different. Some may have a very strong desire for connecting with people, others less so. I realize we're not born with personalities, that we develop them. But we are born with temperments, which are rooted in personality. So it's possible the non-autistic personality spectrum ends up being a bit different than the autistic personality spectrum, but I don't think it is fundamentally different.

Say you have a strong desire to connect with others but you can't figure out a way to do it successfully. This can lead to the feeling of never being able to fit in, which can lead to depression. If you're lucky enough, however, to figure out a way to connect, even if it's difficult for you, you are more likely to feel satisfied and happy with yourself. That helps you avoid depression. It's not that simple, of course, but I believe it to be a significant factor.

Sorry. Figuring out what motivates people's behavior and what makes things tick, is a huge part of my being. Last night at a dinner party, hanging under the eave of the house was a worm with a sequin in it's mouth. I have no doubt that I was the only soul present who noticed that worm hanging there, but my mind wouldn't stop there. I wanted to speculate how that worm came to have a sequin in its mouth. I started looking around for other sequins lying around that he could have chosen from, why he would want to grab a sequin to begin with. I expect the average guy on the street to kid with me by saying, "Maybe it was a female worm".

I am also curious how many Aspies does one encounter that LOVE eye contact? I guess anything's possible.

I meant that it seemed like you were trying to classify traits in a way that aren't all that well defined or consistent across the autistic or NLD population. By all means, investigate the details, but don't be surprised when it doesn't quite fit into the boxes the way you perceive the boxes to be shaped.

Which means the boxes need reshaping.

Could be that you are an aspie who is just driven to be sociable. Not all aspies are the same. I have met so many aspies and I have met a few that actually seemed to have good social skills.

WOW! I didn't realize that this was rare. It was only recently that I learned that it is unusual for people to do so in 4 or 5 dimensions... which I have been able to do for most of my life. The funny thing is that I am not a visual learner, due to sensory stuff.

If you want to make a distinction I believe I'm closer to classic autism than aspergers even though I'm diagnosed PDD-NOS. I don't have many of the NLD traits at all.

List of my symptoms:

Very sensitive nervous system.
Don't tolerate discomfort well.
Appear "tense" all the time.
Easily overwhelmed.
Short temper.
Feel irritable when thoughts get interrupted.
Absent minded.
Obsessions and OCD-like symptoms.
Extreme focus.
Might find myself thinking about a single topic all day for several days on end.
Not so great with memory, spelling, or vocabulary.
Excel at visual/spatial tasks.
Excel with abstract thinking.
Slow to respond to verbal questions.
Unable to multi-task.
Difficulty switching tasks.
Executive function problems (i.e. trouble getting started on things).
Bad at small talk.
Become mute under anxiety.
Poor social performance under anxiety.
Unable to keep up with conversations when there's more than one other person.
Poor full body coordination but generally good with my hands.

A few thoughts from Nldline.com:

2/3 of aspies do not have NLD.
NLD can be caused by brain damage or brain illness. It is not always genetic, although it can be.

I'm AS with NLD.

Less spatial and motor problems would be the two big ones.

Some of the things that I'm reading in this thread could be attributed to dyslexia, also. Dyslexia is the polar opposite of NLD, but I suppose on the surface some of the issues are the same, it's just coming from different areas of the brain. This site has the most info on dyslexia that I've ever seen in one place: http://www.dys-add.com/sitemap.html

I think those that have AS, and dyslexia can present quite differently. Dyslexics usually are super-intuitive when it comes to facial expressions, and ToM, empthay, ect... I think that alone changes some of the dynamic of how AS would be presented in someone with a co-morbid of dyslexia. If someone has one neurological disorder it's more common than not that they'll another one.

For the record, poor penmanship is called dysgraphia, not dyspraxia, and you never ever have just dygraphia. It always travels with another neurological difference. There's more info about that in the link I provided.

Oh. Thank you for pointing that out. I qualify for dysgraphia in spades, but I am very undyspraxic. I read the book called "The Gift of Dyslexia" a few year ago, and discovered that I have many things in common with people who have Dyslexia, but I lost interest when I read where people with dyslexia are translating from written words to image, when they read, so words like articles give them problems because there is on image for those words. I translate from print to sounds, and from sounds to image. Also for me, words are remembered as sounds, and spellings have to be memorized by wrote, when they do not fit the phonics rules. In the UK, Auditory Processing Disorder is considered to be a form of dyslexia, but not in the US. If I have dyslexia it is a very mild form. I am a slow reader, and sometimes don't get the same meaning from the words as what is on the page, but don't discover until I reread it. To me that is related to APD because my in APD I experience that when listening to spoken words. Unlike dyslexia, I don't have direction problems. I am very good at finding my way using north south east west, right and left, and direction words, and time words don't bother me.

Not to be harping, or anything.... but you did spell the word 'no' backwards in your post, and mixed up the words 'wrote', and 'rote'.
Auditory processing issues are a part of dyslexia here, and one of the things they look for when diagnosing. Also, they use sound to help spelling. Like, in these demo videos on a researched bases tutoring program http://www.dys-add.com/index.html#student

However, if you're dyslexic, as you said, it would be mildly. Your grammar, spelling, and punctuation isn't too bad at all.

I am slowly listening to one of the lectures on that site. When I write a post, it usually takes me 15 to 30 minutes; five minutes to write it, and the rest of the time to proof read it, and I may not catch everything even then. Case in point, this post. And I worked very hard for my C's in high school, but I didn't dread courses that involved writing in college, but I never did well with them, and that was back in the good old days before computers or word processors were invented, and I did a lot of erasing on the typewriter, and everything had to be typed. And I ended up flunking out of all of my attempts at foreign languages, and ASL was not offered when I was in college. Hmm. Maybe. But I do have a good feel for flow with words, and grammar was one of my strong subjects in school, even though I could not seem to learn how to spell the word. I also have problems with my fingers typing the wrong word forms, and me having to watch what I am typing all the time to make certain that I catch all of my fingers cute ones. Yeah, maybe that's it.

Well, just maybe you've found out why you differ ever so slightly from those on the spectrum without dyslexia. It could account for much of what you said. Sounds plausible to me.

My husband, and daughter both have dyslexia, but they don't struggle with all of the same things. My husband, for instance, can't get lost. It's not possible. He has a virtual 3-D map inside of his head. My daughter can, and does get lost easily. It's kinda like AS, where not everyone is going to be the same.

Yeah, I have a virtual 3-D map of our neighborhood, and a 3-D map of our house, and a 3-D map of our food pantry, and a 3-D map of our frig, etc.

Ok, I watched the 3+ hour "What is Dyslexia" video. I have Phonemic Awareness. Is there such a thing as a dyslexic person who has phonemic awareness? I also have no right/left or up/down confusion. I remember having great difficulty learning to read in the first grade. Evidently I acquired phonemic awareness in second grade because that is when I learned to convert printed words to sounds.

I am very good in music, but I have no difficulty with printed music, ie. hearing the sounds from reading the score.

But yes I commonly mistype with dyslexic like mistakes. Maybe that's the dysgraphia. It is funny though. I have met people who have been diagnosed with ADHD, and my wife cannot distinguish their handwriting from mine. Evidently the co-morbid doesn't have to be dyslexia.

But thank you for showing me this because you may have helped me with a child I tutor in reading.