The New DSM

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I'm not sure, but I don't like the idea of all being heaped in a autistic pile. hopefully we'll get some sort of level system like (just an example):
Autistic type 1: classic autistic
Autistic type 2: HFA/PDD-NOS
Autistic type 3: Aspergers/PDD-NOS

I'm not sure how to answer this one. The criteria are different for Kanner's and Asperger's, so that would have to be taken into account. How would the criteria look then? It's important that no-one get told they're not a spectrumite because the experts disagree, as it is now.

I'm more wondering if we could need more subgroups of ASDs. There are so many differences between us regarding how we meet the criteria and to what degree. But that might be more of an issue of my liking for classifications and introspection.

I think that the best way will be with 1 single spectrum.
Then you can go down with 2/3 principal cathegory (like social and Obsessive-Compulsive) and a set of co-morbid (digestive/allergic problems, language problems, abstract thinking problems, sense problem, etc..) and rate each of them individually.

Asperger actually is too much specific to be a proper diagnosis and using it in a more general way it's like saying: "Asperger = autistic who can fake normal 90% of the time".

isn't asperger known to be notoriously unspecific and therefore very hard to diagnose?

asperger needs it's own spectrum, there clearly is one. people with AS vary a whole lot more than those of us with HFA (going off real life not this forum). people with AS are all different, HFAs are very the same.

there should be an asperger's spectrum.

There is no NT diagnosis... being NT simply means you don't have a neurological disorder.

I agree with 88BK, growing up I apparently came across as a genius (not tooting my own horn, I have been called that numerous times) who was very scatterbrained, rather than as autistic.

That is probably a good indication that the category is unrefined; not valid. Giving it its own spectrum makes us into two groups, and thus smaller, and thus, less likely to be important.

I have a friend from high school that has some rare disorder. Last I heard he was one of two people known to have it. Needless to say, little research is done on it; little funding is available.



No I disagree. I am diagnosed as an aspie(and it fits best), but in ways i am like a photo negative of aspiehood. Unlike most aspies, I dont yearn for attention and affection, but it doesnt make me an autie either; I have far too much social skills and presence(But not enough!)

It would be far better that we all be lumped in the nation of autism (like the gays, lesbians and transsexuals have teamed up). Let us then have very specific and practical diagnoses on the side, like being avoidant(like me), sensory issues, CAPD, digestive problems, and all the comorbids.

Instead of a vague group, we need to be unified, with custom attention to our quirks.

Although people with Aspergers and Autism do have many of the same problems, combining the diagnosis would create the same sort of problems we had before the Aspergers diagnosis was put in place; many people with Aspergers would fall through the gaps (so to speak) and miss out on diagnosis all together. Aspergers can be less outwardly obvious than Autism.

No... "Asperger = Autistic with normal IQ who learned to speak reasonably well before age 3". So, basically, they take a test that doesn't work well on autistics, plus a criterion that's only relevant in early childhood, and diagnose you by it. Yes, it's arbitrary.

I would prefer if they diagnosed autism by its main feature. There could be an undifferentiated ("plain ol' autism") category for people who had all the features at more or less the same level; then sub-categories for people whose main feature was language difficulty or social interaction or executive function or whatever. No need to stratify by functioning level; that's kind of a silly thing to do anyway because there's a million reasons one might get put in a lower category, and just being in the category says nothing about what put you there. Main features seem like the easiest way to try to categorize the spectrum, and the most useful, because they give you half an idea of what kind of autism to expect. Kind of the way, if somebody tells you they have ADHD, that could mean a lot of things, but if they tell you they have Hyperactive/Impulsive ADHD, you know more of what they mean--they're hyper and they tend to do things without thinking. Whereas, if they say Inattentive type, you know to expect the scattered, disorganized sort who keeps losing track of what they meant to do and is generally too busy daydreaming to bounce off any walls...

I just need some clarification here. The quote is inferring that auties don't normally yearn for attention and affection whereas most of us Aspies do? I'm just trying to understand the spectrum better here---since it sounds like we may all become one. Thank you.

giving it it's own spectrum would make it more important. right now AS is seen as two things. 1. the biggest joke of the autism world. 2. a disorder they didn't know much about that had traits shared with autistic people so they tacked it on the end of that spectrum. people with AS have been cheated by this, this is why AS is seen like it is (and it is not viewed positively).



what you said above clearly illustrates why AS DOES need it's own spectrum. you do not fit the general aspie criteria yet you are still a diagnosed aspie. you think you're the only one? not at all. AS truly does have a spectrum of it's own. even here i have seen the word 'mild-AS' thrown about. mild AS? that doesn't even exist, but it could if AS had it's own spectrum.

the LFA-MFA-HFA spectrum should be stand alone for the reason that people one those 3 levels of the spectrum display some clear cut autistic traits that aspies never display, it kind of takes away from the 'autism' side of things. i think AS is on the spectrum, but it is now what people think of when they hear the word autism, they do not think of a thriving community of happy people talking and chumming about (this why i voted that AS being on the spectrum trivializes autism).

the asperger spectrum needs to be next to the autism spectrum, as in close but no cigar.

this is nothing like the gay/lesbian/transsexual movement, aspies are not fighting for our rights, and compared to their struggles, we are hardly oppressed. but if we were to compare, aspies would be like bi-sexuals, sitting on both sides of the fence (autisctic/NT). very convenient for them, but unaccepted by most people (gay and straight people alike don't always agree with bisexuality - it is often taken offensively). and you might also notice, when it gets very unclear, such as with people born as hermaphrodites or transgender, they could easily gain acceptance in that community, but they know they are on a spectrum of their own and have the courage to stand up for that.

it seems alot of aspies are terrified that they might not get to be on the ASD spectrum anymore. i don't understand why though.

i might be able to shed some light on this for you. right now i live in a home for HFAs 5 days a week because there are new young people there and i am supervising their first 2 weeks, there are support groups that happen there every day. there are 3 aspie support groups, one for parents with children, one for people who have been diagnosed and another for people who suspect they have asperger's (self-diagnosed). they had to separate the self-diagnosis people from the rest because they had a tendency to spend the whole group session battling for attention and sympathy.

when this first started the diagnosed and self-diagnosed people were all the same group (parents/children has always had it's own space) but the diagnosed aspies always became so frustrated with the self-diagnosed aspies always trying to have their sop stories heard, or just blatantly trying to get sympathy and attention. so they eventually separated.

so yes, it does exist, but only with a certain group of aspies.

interestingly, there were similar problems when we tried to intergrate aspies into our HFA group (major failure), it became very clear that HFAs and aspies are different breeds. we have very different struggles.

I suspect the recent change is about knocking Aspies off the chart altogether.

Thank you 88BK for your experience with this. It's strange how many different views are given. Your first-hand account experience indicates a distinct difference between AS and HFA, but yet other expert opinions suggest AS and HFA are so similar as to be one. And it is often said that AS is a form of HFA. But as you say---they are very different. Then we look at the common expression that you meet one person with autism, you meet one person with autism. Everyone on the spectrum seems to act differently than each other. If we were to categorize autism down into all its possible types---we would probably end up with a seperate type for each person with autism---with only person in the world having each possible type.

It becomes clear that autism is not like the common cold or the flu---where the symptoms are similar. But IMO that makes sense because autism is not a disease---it is a personality difference. And no two people are alike.

So what is autism if it is represented so differently in each one of us? Perhaps we should we go back to the origination of the word "autism" which indicated "inwardness." Are we inward? Are our special intense interests (those of us that have them) inwardness? I admit, I enjoy looking inward into my special intense interests where those around me are socializing. When I get into an awkward situation, I tend to think inwardly. And, even in non-awkward situations I am very frequently thinking inwardly. Is this what they meant by autism years ago?

Perhaps autism is a term meant to represent a multitude of very different things that just don't fit in anywhere else. Gee, that makes sense doesn't it?---not fitting in. If we with autism don't seem to fit in with the norm of society, then let ourselves and our various traits not fit in anywhere either---not even within our autistic world. Just look all around us here at the WrongPlanet for example. Many of us don't agree on many issues concerning autism. We can't even agree on what causes it. Some of us don't want cured, and some of you do. Some of us have sensory issues, and some of you don't. Wow---aren't we diverse?

Well, I am starting to sound like a commentator on the national news, so I will quit. I was just having some fun with the philosophy of autism.

Cognitive difference. People with autism can have all sorts of personalities. But yes, not a disease.

I think autism probably represents a sort of difference in brain development--and a difference that can go in many different directions, depending on the person. Maybe it's a tendency to specialize instead of generalize, and where you specialise leads to your unique cognitive profile.

And, anyway, autistic people aren't the only cognitive disability that includes a huge amount of diversity. The big group of people with developmental delay is another such group, just as diverse as autistics, maybe more.

Thank you. Yours is the best argument for a separate spectrum that I have heard.

Oddly, I was self diagnosed for a year before getting formally assessed.

But I dont hang around complaining and looking for sympathy, nor do I seem to have any urge to couple up, seek new friendships, etcetera. I dont belong to any therapy groups and I generally dont post here in General Autism Discussion. I find its full of complainers, much like you said about those groups.

While I dont seek sympathy, I am a bit of a complainer in my daily life. My activities are done as a loner, and I reject offers of company and help. One of my prime motivations is to be alone as much as possible.

And I understand that is atypical for aspies. The bulk of them seem to crave romantic love, the approval of their peers, and seem to have the melancholy sense that they are perpetually misunderstood.

I think I am perpetually misunderstood too, but I see it as a consequence of people wishing to interface with me in a way that I would rather not. We would have no misunderstanding if they would just leave me the hell alone.

May I hear more from you about the differences betwenn HFA and aspies? I think the criteria of delayed speech is ridiculous. There needs to be some divisive factor that is persistent throughout a life time.