Loving mr spock

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in 35 years i have been to enough bars (far less than most people i know), but enough. and i have never once approached a woman i didn't know. that is one weird aspie if you ask me.

Are you talking about "A Different Kind of Normal" by Jeanette Purkis? I've read that book in one sitting. Her story is indeed an extraordinary one.

As for the book to which this thread is devoted, I've never read it. The title didn't attract me much. I don't really feel like reading about a typical withdrawn and cold AS person - I've had enough of that stereotype.

It ain't a stereotype.

You think we're all cold?

No, but it's one common presentation of someone with an ASD, so it's not a stereotype.

A stereotype is a representation of a certain group of people that is oversimplified and does not include variations among the group. Therefore, it is a stereotype because it is overgeneralized. It is true that some people with AS present themselves like Vulcans from Star Trek, but there are various degrees to it, and people show various traits of their personality depending on the environment they're in.

I just had an indifferent reaction to the title, that's it. Besides, it implies the book being written by a neurotypical, which throws me off a little because it's difficult for NTs to understand people with AS very well. But I might check it out later, to see if my predictions will be confirmed or not.

No, no stereotype, as it needs to be applied to everyone with the condition and/or an oversimplified depiction of a set person.

No one said that everyone with an ASD is uncaring and cold (though I'm sure the grand majority of do often appear that way to many people, but that's more their perception of the atypical social behaviour of someone with an ASD).

Referring to "cold and withdrawn" as "typical" is definitely stereotyping.

Anyway, it isn't even the majority. "Shy" is closer to the majority. Also "eccentric".

I don't think we are cold. I just think we cannot understand very well the emotions other people are expressing to us and the same way we can't express very well our own emotions. If those problems didn't exist we would establish better emotional rapport. I guess that this communication problem strikes NTs as if we were "cold" and "detached".

Exactly. I like reading books that do not emphasize the "cold" side of AS so much and instead focus on capturing the unique personality of the person with AS. I liked Jeanette Purkis' book because there was actually little mention of any typical AS traits; it is just a story of a very interesting individual.

I've just finished reading it. Mixed feelings about it. Got it from the library, so it didn't cost me anything. I wouldn't have paid much for it, but I think it was worth the time I spent reading it.

There's a questionnaire in there I've not seen before - for NTs to fill in on behalf of anybody they think may have AS - I tried it for a suspected Aspie and discovered that I couldn't answer most of the questions......these NTs must know their friends very deeply if they can fill this in for them.

One worrying sign is that the author cites Maxine Aston as the first port of call for anybody interested in AS-NT relationships....no mention of how controversial MA's ideas are, or of her lack of qualifications. But interestingly, the "Spock" author seems to define MA's "Cassandra Syndrome" as not being believed by anybody when trying to talk about an autistic partner, whereas if I remember right, Ms. Aston's original idea was that it was the autistic partner who was the one in denial. Anybody know?

It's a heart-rending story of her failed relationship with a very strange guy who had AS in spades. As others have already said, he wasn't typical of the breed. He frequently failed to turn up for dates (I'd be upset if I were a few minutes late, and deeply ashamed of myself if I skipped one completely). He could barely resist other women, and seems to have had sex with them while being celibate with his "partner." Seems that sex just didn't have the same meaning for him as it does for me. One time he vanished for a few weeks and then phoned her up to tell her he'd got engaged to somebody else, oblivious to the way she might feel about that. If I were messing somebody about like that, I'd know what I was doing and I think I'd want to shoot myself. I doubt that many Aspies would be unfaithful merely because they didn't see that it could hurt.

Seems likely that she had some kind of penchant for his childlike nature, and was confusing her maternal feelings for normal partner feelings. One of her friends told her that she was stuck on him because of the challenge, the problem she couldn't understand or fix. She says very little about her sex life, which seems to have been celibate since well before she met him. But when (while dumping him) she complained that he never had sex with her, he replied bitterly that he would have done if she'd only said - so I can't help but think that she was partly to blame there. I know women usually hate to initiate sex, but as he was a known Aspie, why did she insist on still being passive?

Their bourgeois lifestyle didn't endear me to them - the guy was a total flop at business, always imagining that his latest grand scheme would make him a fortune when it was doomed to make a huge loss. She was a TV presenter. They seemed to spend most of their leisure time guzzling expensive wine and going on extravagent "retail therapy" trips.

One thing I didn't understand - they were in a bar and he was larking about with the girls....I can well see how that would have upset her, but she seemed to put more weight on the way he blew them off when they asked him to go home with them - he simply said "I can't, because I love Barbara." What the hell was so wrong with that? What was he supposed to say?

But the book did give me a feel for the harm that an autistic person might do in a relationship. Time was that I'd have said that an NT should have no great problem in making a few simple adjustments to accommodate an Aspie partner - just drop the demands for attendance at big noisy gatherings, spell out clearly what you want, forget those silly NT expectations about mind-reading skills, etc.........but I don't believe that any more. Autism really can be a devastating block for anybody wishing to share intimacy. I began to see how a lot of my sense of disappointment in my (now estranged) wife is probably down to her autistic traits - similar half-baked business plans with no interest in my protests, no responsibility taken for the practicalities of the thing, and no understanding of the hurt she was causing me. Aspies might not mean to do harm, but it seems that some of can behave worse than the most spiteful NT you could imagine, and the anguished question "how could you?" often sprang to mind when I thought about the guy in the book and about my wife. Sure, I'm autistic myself, and should understand, but it's not a question of understanding or knowing that they can't help it, it's a question of how much neglect your feelings can stand before you cry "enough!"

I see the guy in the book largely as a jerk. After she'd explained to him that they needed to split up, he didn't turn up for their last evening together, but left a note that completely sidestepped the problems he'd caused - basically he'd rationalised it, and said that he was leaving her because he needed to live independently. No apology, no recognition of the harm he'd done. Pathetic.

I don't know how good her science is. She mentioned a number of things that Aspies ALWAYS have - like invariably failing the Sally Ann test until the age of 11. I'm skeptical. But I shouldn't expect Darwin-style scientific rigour from a TV presenter. Their job is to paint exciting pictures, and considering that, she's made a good attempt at objectivity, but this is not a scholarly work. It would have been comforting to read that she appreciated that AS is a spectrum disorder and that most of us aren't as far gone as her partner was.

She did acknowledge that NT love-and-dating methods are sly and horrible - I've always thought so but it was nice to hear it from an NT.

I suspect there are more useful books about AS relationships than this one. Either it's an extreme case, or we may as well give up on social growth. But it's probably good to see things from the other side for a change. Even as a diagnosed autistic, I can feel her pain, and her book served as a stark reminder of how bad things can get, if we're silly enough to let them.

Okay, I read this book. First off, I would like to point out that the "AS" guy was not diagnosed: his girlfriend, the author, just thought that he had AS. Hence, the "weird Aspie". So, I guess it´s for the reader to decide. As for me, I reserve judgment, as I can only have an idea when I know what´s actually going through the mind of the person. Since the book was not written by "Mr Spock" himself, but the woman he was with, I really can´t say.

In addition to that, I was disappointed that the man was not like Spock in the least! Whereas, based on the title, I was expecting a Spock-like character....(I like the character of Spock, by the way, he´s my favorite on "Star Trek"). This guy was more sociable, had less common sense, was very unreliable, and- as has been stated- had sex with random women. In fact, he was the complete opposite of all the Aspies I´ve ever known.

Another thing I thought was so strange was that the author seemed to have certain expectations of him, and it was unclear if these expectations were ever stated. For instance, the relationship was never consummated, as I recall, though they did say they loved each other. As this was not a standard type of love relationship anyway, I found it odd that the author was constantly hurt by the man she was with, by his straying, or his being late to one of their dates....I don´t know, it seemed like she was dreaming. She just blamed all these things on his "disability". But maybe he just didn´t really want to be tied down to her? I don´t know, maybe I´m not "getting" something here, but I just thought it was a bizarre kind of situation.

I got in from the autism NZ library and read parts.

At the time, I enjoyed the book and the writers perspective, but it was one of the first AS books I read so I was very hungry for info at the time

Her being an agony aunt getting material for financial gain through the relationship, and him being much younger than her and an alcoholic predatory bar lizard of sorts (she likes drinking too) makes it look like nothing really, but providing her the basis for a book that sells and returns a profit for her.

I thought the character's extreme flakiness, promiscuity, etc. was due more to possible psych issues than aspieness, But it is possible that he was an extreme case. It is unfortunate that she chose to present him as a representative aspie when he had never been diagosed by anyone. I wonder if the loose structure of their relationship was due to lack of communication. Perhaps he did not know that he was supposed to be her partner and therefore acted in his own interests as a single man. In the absence of emotional connection on the part of the aspie,, he might have to be told what was expected of him. Does that make sense to anyone else but me? I tend to be clueless about the intent of others in friendships and relationships until I am confronted with it.

I am disappointed with the portrayal of aspies in this way. This is a good reason that I never reveal that I am aspie.

I agree he was nothing like Mr. Spock.........Spock behaved in a highly responsible adult fashion, while Danny was childlike and irresponsible.

And yes it's a shame the author didn't focus better on the evidence of his condition. She did present evidence, but it was scattered throughout the book. She said his questionnaire scores were extremely high. He clearly had no clue about the emotional effect his behaviour might have on others.

Yes it does. I didn't notice the author doing much to explain to Danny in crystal-clear terms exactly what she expected of him. It seemed more like she was bottling her disappointment. She tried to end the relationship once or twice but relented, but as far as I can see she never gave him any warning about it, nor did she mention any real attempt to challenge his behaviour. She financed his madcap business ventures rather than standing up to him and telling him that his ideas were hopeless. I didn't see any mention of her drawing clear boundaries for him.

Communication is a problem in most relationships - NT or AS. Have had too many conversations with friends - men and women- who are ready to abandon their spouse or partner and there is already much hatred in their feelngs toward their partners. The conversation goes like this:

Him: I'm going to leave her if she doesn't change her ways.
Me: Have you told her the things that bother you?
Him: No.
Me: Why not?
Him: I shouldn't have to tell her. She should know without my telling her.

These conversations make me angry - and these are committed relationships.

Imagine how much more difficult it is for two people who are only "pretending" to have a relationship or have not defined their relationship as are the two characters in the book. It is not surprising then that the writer is confused and angry and Danny is completely unaware that he is in a relationship.