By discounting the self-diagnosed, you play their game

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<rant>

Waste of time FP -- the generation that had their moms & dads pay, and teachers notice and know the right thing to do, professionals who had a name for what they are, have no idea. It happened before they understood anything. It was like magic, or fate -- it couldn't have been any different. In their mind, the system is infallible, because it worked for them. All of our parents all tell us "doctor knows best," and in their case it was true. In ours, it wasn't. They won't understand until they get out into the world and get screwed over a few times, and start to understand the messy realities of systems invented, staffed and run by human beings. But even then, maybe they won't -- maybe the struggle that leads to such insights won't happen at all.

It's always that way with people for whom "the system" works. Ask any professor of Physics who was hired in the 60's, the heyday of easy physics professorships. They'll tell you it's still easy to get one -- just work hard and follow the system, and it all works out -- even though that hasn't been true for 20 years.

To the older generations I say: You're being outnumber by the dx'ed-as-kids, and they don't get it, and never will. So, if you haven't, get your ticket punched, if you can, because every year the number of the older generations is shrinking, and the number of the new is growing. They're going to be running and dominating more and more groups, fora, meet-ups, everything, as time goes on. Official dx status is going to matter more and more.

These self-dx threads didn't used to be this way, or this frequent.

I remember before AS even existed in the DSM -- there was a lot of thoughtful talk about identification, community, culture, disability, etc. "What is autism?" was a question that generated many thoughtful answers^1. But those days are over. The tyranny of the youthfully dx'ed will prevail, by sheer numbers. It's inevitable.

^1
Jane Meyerding, "Thoughts On Finding Myself Differently Brained"
Phil Schwarz, "Identifying, Educating, and Empowering Allies"
9 Essays: What is autism?

</rant>

Well put Apple_in_my_Eye
also:
Maggiedoll

The vast majority of prisons do not have walls.

Think about that for a while.

I get deja vu from this so I'll just comment very briefly, in case anyone wants an additional opinion.

Pro or anti selfdiagnosis aside, the story doesn't compare. Since everyone "knows" he's a native it's more along the line's of needing paternity evidence to receive alimony. People might have "known" Boris Becker's illegitimate child was his because they were virtually identical, but DNA was still required to settle the dispute.

What if the story went that the basket ball player was pasty white with red hair but convinced of his native status? Would you still think he should be included? After all, he is convinced he belongs there.

It reminds me of the Seinfeld episode with the guy who converts to judaism so he can tell Jew jokes.

So, is there an "Ignore <insert word here>" thread function? Because these debates between self-diagnosis and professional are New and Exciting!


Srsly. Just pick one thread, sticky it, and then don't let anymore be made, just make that one and only thread it because there has to be at least 10 in the bare month I've been on these forums. And they all go for several pages, mostly nothing but argument amongst people who's opinions will not change and quite frankly it's tiring seeing them all.

Some of them have almost degenerated into flame threads and that's really unpleasant to see on a forum such as this

Yea, um, what Vyn said.

When I made my first comment, I was not talking about anybody in particular. I was talking about how these threads go.

It's an important issue to a lot of people, and on a lot of people's minds, especially those people who have had a lot of trouble with professionals. An awful lot of undiagnosed (and diagnosed, for that matter) people here have had experiences with professionals that were downright abusive. So even if it were possible to find a specialist, the concept of going to another one can be too much.

As I pointed out to the person who got offended and sent me a polite, logical PM about the topic, I was not referring to anybody in particular in this thread when I mentioned the "diagnosis snobs." And I certainly have no problem with the concept that not ALL self-diagnosis is accurate.

My point, to reiterate, is that, by considering the opinions of the professionally diagnosed as somehow a more "valid" autistic opinion than someone who is self-diagnosed... that's playing the game of the establishment. Maybe the baseball analogy isn't 100% perfect (what analogy is), but that was the theme of it. In retrospect, I realized that I created an incendiary topic name. While I'm sure that there is probably a better wording out there, I wanted to get my point across.

I felt that this point had not been covered by the self-diagnosis threads I have read. I have not been staying atop the more recent WP threads as my WP fixation has died down in the last month, so if this specific angle to self-diagnosis was recently discussed, I apologize. However, it is my personal opinion that it is unfair to simply judge the thread as "noisy" simply because it has the word "self-diagnosed" in the title. (EDIT: this isn't addressed to anyone in particular, but it's more of a general feeling I'm getting... that people are sick and tired of talking about self-diagnosis validity and are possibly over eager to dismiss the thread.)

I certainly know that it is a sore topic for many, and that the thread would likely get off topic (as it already has). That's the nature of discussion, sometimes, but it is ultimately my goal to get people to consider the ramifications of some of their viewpoints. Whether or not it will change anyone's mind I don't know, but perhaps it will present an angle that most people simply haven't considered before.

Let me ask this question. How many people have ever read someone's opinion here on WP, and then gone to check their profile to see if the person is professionally diagnosed, and used this information in some way to give weight or credibility to their opinion? I'll admit... I've done it. Not to speak for others, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if many others here have as well. I would argue that this behavior is no different.

I'm not saying that it's not a valid and necessary topic, just that you have to seal it really well and dangle it from a tree before retreating into your tent to go to sleep, or you'll wake up in the morning to find that it's gone. You need food on a backpacking trip too, but that doesn't mean that the bears don't consider it their food too.

Um, maybe that's a bad analogy.. it seemed good when it popped into my head, though!

Meaning: it's a loaded topic. It's an important one, but still can't really avoid ending up inflammatory.