How is Asperger a Disability or a Disorder?

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Well, I suppose that, in theory, you can only be diagnosed with AS if the cons are more intense than the pros.

Thank you for stating it so eloquently.



OMG! I'm about that bad too. If I want variety, I'll go to an all-you-can-eat buffet. Otherwise, cooking should consist of opening a package and turning on the microwave oven.

I have an IQ of 136, but I don't act like a genus. I act pretty dumb, most of the time.

Haha, yeh, me and my flatmate (who is also a fellow aspie) just break down in giggles every day at mealtimes... it's getting to be a running joke now. The moment the question is asked "so what are we having for dinner?", it's like, forget it. I mean, just imagine, there's a whole grocery store full of choices. How the hell are we supposed to decide?

Yeh, fair play to the UK government for changing ASD to ASC in the new autism legislation... it's a nice step forward. Words are only words, but they're still important to perceptions.

Good luck with the diagnosis, my psychologist wrote a medical report which included information for employers.... not sure which part of the world you're in, but wherever you are, the UK National Autistic Society has a couple of factsheets for employers if you think your guys are open to it. Click the links on the bottom of this page... http://www.nas.org.uk/nas/jsp/polopoly. ... 46&a=17866

Interesting though, the NAS hasn't caught up with the government (it's usually the other way round) - they still refer to ASDs...

No way, I thought the average went up. What NTs are they testing? Is this including people they plucked from the jungle who've never heard of half the stuff on the test?

The IQ results are calibrated in order to have an average of 100.

Even if the inteligence of everybody triplicates, the average IQ will still be 100.

Basically your IQ is:

([your results in a IQ test] - [average results in these test])*15/[standard deviation of the results in the test]+100

Then, the average is always 100 and the standar deviation always 15 (some tests hava a diferent SD, but the logical is the same)

Welcome to WrongPlanet! I hope you stick around; it sounds like you would be able to contribute to a lot of discussions.

What you said makes a lot of sense, but remember that Asperger's carries some negative traits as well. I personally consider my Asperger's a hindrance more than a disability (unless I'm talking to someone at Tech's disability services because I get early registration ). I don't have much of the social impairments; the only one is an inability to read body language, and I can use my high intelligence and great memory to mostly work around that. However, for people with more severe social impairments, Asperger's is much more clearly a disability. In extreme cases, lack of social success can lead to severe depression.

I hope I haven't said anything that hasn't already been said by more than one other person; I'm on my Blackberry so reading through a whole thread is a bit cumbersome.

Not Perg-atory topic

I only find my AS to be challenging when I am trying to figure out ways of satisfying my food fussy kids. i would prefer to do as Lepus does--easier if you live alone but I need/want my NT children with me.

Hello Everyone,

I am friends with reiver and I have just signed up to this forum but have been lurking here for some time already. I too did the online tests and got aspie scores. After reading about the experiences of some people here, I remembered various situations from my past where others told me that I am "odd" or "weird". There were also quite a few situations where I misinterpreted signals from girls... More recently, there were some board meetings where I was the only one arguing about certain problems and did not get why others just sit quiet... So, I guess the test results are correct.

That being said, I think that AS is a mixed blessing for most, but mostly positive for me. Social skills can be learned and I did learn enough to eliminate most of the disadvantages. I still hate crowds, shopping centers, large parties, etc. but that's not really a big deal for me. On the other hand, my IQ is much higher than the average (above 150).

I don't call AS a disability. Similarly, someone who doesn't have a brain for math or doesn't know how to dance should not be called disabled. i think that Baron-Cohen made a good argument along these lines.

Thanks for all the responses. (Much appreciated.) BUT....

I think some people have made decent arguments that, a person with Asperger could be disabled. (It's just as valid as saying, "a Male could be disabled".) However, I don't believe anyone has answered my question as to why Asperger is being called a Disability or a Disorder. Let me be specific....

For Asperger to be validly called a Disability or a Disorder, it is necessary for virtually all people with Asperger to actually be Disabled or a Disorderly. Let me illustrate this with an analogy....

Consider if someone made the claim that, "being a Male is a Disability or a Disorder". Consider then that someone else then asked the question, "how is being a Male a Disability or a Disorder?". After that a few people came forth and each effectively said, "I am a Male and I am Disabled". These Disabled Males might even know other Disabled Males. (Their existence is certainly evidence that a Male could be Disabled or Disorderly.) But this is not sufficient to validly claim that, "being a Male is a Disability or a Disorder", since that statistic does not establish that virtually all Males are Disabled.

And thus, getting back to Asperger, let me specifically ask, does anyone have evidence that virtually all people with Asperger are Disabled or Disorderly?

(Because that evidence is necessary to validly claim that Asperger Disability or a Disorder. 2 examples, 20 examples, 50 examples, 1,000 examples, etc, of people with Asperger who are Disabled or are Disorderly is not sufficient to prove that Asperger is a Disability or a Disorder. You need to show virtually all the people with Asperger are Disabled or a Disorderly.)

From the information I currently have (included the comments in this thread), this does not seem the case. (If someone has evidence to the contrary I'd much appreciate you presenting it.)

That Wired article shows that there are large amount engineers in Silicon Valley that have Asperger, but whom are not disabled and are not disorderly. In fact, they are quite prosperous! And it's not that they are working around a disability. They are not disabled at all. Their Asperger-ness is contributing to their prosperity AFAICT. (From what I can tell, if these people weren't Aspies, they wouldn't have that prosperity.)

Also, since I've become very much aware of Asperger, and have been getting friends and colleagues to take the test, I am starting to get the impression that senior level engineering positions are dominated by Aspies. (There are Neutrotypical engineers, but they tend to get stuck at the Intermediate position. I.e., they've been around too long to be called a Junior engineer; but aren't "good" enough to cut it as a Senior engineer.)

This is more evidence that their Aspie-ness can lead to prosperity.

Now, it's true, I may not have a large enough or "good" enough sample size yet to claim a strong positive correlation between Asperger and top-end engineers. (And it's definitely something that's worth researching. Or perhaps someone has already done the research, and I just need to find their work.) But, this does seem to establish that, although some people with Asperger are Disabled, that Asperger is NOT a Disability or a Disorder.

But like I said, I'm am looking for evidence to the contrary. (If anyone is aware of any, I'd much appreciate if you could present it.)

Okay so let me get this straight, you are making people take the "Asperger" test to see if they have Asperger's? I don't mean to sound harsh or rude, but that test is not a diagnostic tool and just because one scores highly on that test does not mean they have Asperger's, and to be honest it's quite biased and you can totally manipulate the test to make it seem like you have Asperger's when you really don't. So, you are basically testing a group of people who do not have Asperger's to actually have a great sampling size. You need to use people that actually *have* the diagnosis not the ones that don't have it and are taking some test.

Not all people with Asperger's have a high IQ, at least this is what I have read there have been people with Asperger's who have been considered to be MR though I don't really think that IQ should be the basis of a diagnosis since an IQ doesn't really tell you all that much in my opinion.

I personally think any spectrum disorder can be a disability or it can be a difference, it really depends on the person and how it affects them. I personally think Autism can be quite disabling at times, I do not have a savant skill that people expect me to have though in reality most people with Aspergers or Autism do not have savant abilities, and it's a horrible stereotype. I do not do well in math or science.

I have a very hard time communicating with other people, and I do not have very good motor skills which can really affect me on a daily basis. There are days where I have a hard time talking to other people, and I have a hard time making friends which can be very disabling and times because I can't hold a job. I have days where I can't tie my shoes or zip up my jacket when I know that I know how to do that kind of skill and that is very hard for me.

Just as two examples:

National Autistic Society UK statistics are that 85% of people with an autism spectrum condition are not in employment.

Simon Baren-Cohen demonstrated that 80% of autistic people fail the "Sally-Anne" test (see here for information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally-Anne_test)

David Blunkett was a prominent government minister here in the UK. He was also blind. He was prosperous, but no-one would deny he had a disability. There are many other examples of people with physical, sensory and neurological disabilities who are successful in spite of their disability. That doesn't mean they are not disabled.

I see where you are going with your line of reasoning, and I appreciate the feeling that's behind it. It's great if aspies can see themselves in a positive light, and I try to aspire to that myself. But the statistical facts are that a vast majority of people with Asperger experience difficulties getting on in the world. In fact the definition of AS is that in order to be diagnosed there has to be "clinically significant" impairment in the triad of social functions. In other words, there has to be a noticeable and detrimental effect on the person's functioning in order to make the diagnosis. Those who have got on in later life have probably experienced problems earlier on, and are fortunate to have moved on. Most of us aren't that fortunate, more's the pity.

As I stated in an earlier post, I'm constantly battling against the NT assumption that because I am "intelligent" therefore I don't have any problems, and don't need support. It's important that AS IS recognised as a disability, in order that the vast majority of people who do have problems are legally protected and supported. That's my view anyway, but like I say, I see where you're coming from.

Riever, as an afterthought.....

Where scientists and experts in the field recommend against viewing AS as a disability, this is more to do with the social stigma attached. And that's a good point. But legally, nearly all of us need the protection of being classified as disabled, with the enshrined rights in the workplace and in accessing services that this classification gives to us.

I am different. And I am disabled. I'm not scared of the word, and I'm not ashamed of it. I'm proud of being a disabled person that gets on in the world in spite of my problems. On a personal level, I guess it's for each of us to define ourselves in our own terms. But in legal terms, the protection is essential.

WhittenKitten, are you saying that someone would manipulate the AQ test so that he can fake being an aspie? What purpose would that serve? (Sorry, if I misunderstand what you wrote).

Of course, the self-diagnosis goes further than just some tests. I know reiver and I have been witnessing his obsessions and listening to his long monologues for many years. The test results just provided a plausible explanation for this and other of his "oddities". The same applies to me. I found this website way before I knew about the tests. A lot of what I read here made sense to me and reminded me of my experiences. The tests eventually gave my "condition" a name.

If you do not have impairment, you do not have the disorder. You would see that if you looked at the diagnostic criteria. It doesn't matter how you scored on an internet quiz, or what Wired magazine said. It's a disorder because it causes impairment. If you have a few traits and no impairment, you don't have it. It's in the definition. If you think it's a good thing, you don't have it. It also does not "cause" higher IQs. The average IQ of people with Asperger's is higher than the average IQ of the general population because it specifies that people with Asperger's can't have other developmental delays. If you chop out the bottom of the intelligence spectrum, of course the average will be higher. That doesn't mean that it "causes" IQ to be higher. It means that by definition the average must be higher.
Nothing you're saying makes any sense. It's like saying that since some people with bipolar are creative, it must be a good thing to be bipolar. Ignore all the people with bipolar disorder who kill themselves, that's just a fluke?

This is really the crux of it. It's great that these guys have become top-engineers, more power to them, but I bet if you look into their social lives and backgrounds, there's a lot of difficulties, in spite of their career success.

Asperger is often called the "invisible disability" - people with it are denied help, because to an outsider, nothing's all that wrong with us. I mean, we get jobs, we get married, what's the problem? But most of us DON'T. Most of us are hidden away from the world because we are too scared to interact with it - invisible in more ways than one.....

Check this out about executive function in AS, might provide you with more info as to why there's a strong case for disability status. It's a pretty hefty tome, but you look like the kind of guys that are satisfied by hard facts... click on the top link to download the document: http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?hl= ... i=scholarr