Work issues and 'executive functions'

Post Reply New Topic

Not laughing at you - I have this exact same problem and yes, it drives me crazy, too. I F**king HATE paperwork and government forms - even the 10 question census had me filled with neurotic dread for weeks. I've needed to apply for HUD subsidies for months now and I can't bring myself to go to the office because I don't want to have to answer a kazillion questions. The damn form is like 12 pages all by itself. I can't even make myself sit down and look at it. Filling out the stupid paperwork was the hardest part of filing for SSDI for me - that and trying to explain Executive Dysfunction to faceless bureaucrats on a form, when at the time, I wasn't even familiar with that term.

Maybe this is why I never did homework.

haha no worries. It is laughable in an infuriating way I glanced through the forms after I downloaded them and I haven't been be able to bring myself to fill them out. I wrote earlier today that I NEEDED to get this done. One would think that after acknowledging it time and again and KNOWING it, I would freaken DO IT. I didn't do it again. I seriously have to figure out the underlying reason why I have a problem with this damn paperwork! At this point, I feel like it's idiotic behaviour on my part. I know part of it is an avoidance thing I have. I have to do some reading on this executive function. My first thought reading that term was board meetings and playing golf LMAO.

In school, I was terrible at managing my time for homework; for subjects I didn't like I never got it done; I did everything at the last minute and essays were more often than not handed in late, even in university when I knew I'd lose grades for doing so.

Heh, I very well may take that risk and let you know. Do you have an links regarding this?

To be very honest, I'm very freaked out right now about the prospect of not ever becoming effective at these tasks. I've come to be a somewhat arrogant person lately, in that I believe I am capable of a lot, and could excel beyond the 'norm.' Many elements of my outlook, habits, and results tend to support my high aim.... If only I could get the mundane aspects of my life in order...
For example, I feel like I should have a PhD in something by now, maybe math, acoustics, engineering, or CompSci, and should be slowly rising to the top of my field. Such is my constant hunger for knowledge and precision. Or of the hundred song projects I've started, I should have at least 1/10th of them finished.

My depressions have gotten slowly progressively worse over the past 10 years, fueled by my constant inability to live up to the potential I perceive for myself. I have the opportunities, I have the intelligence, I have the raw talent, I have the support, but this is the critical bottleneck where I stumble at every turn. Getting up for work, actually working while I'm at work, forgetting things, putting things off, inability to focus on simplifying a complex task, planning... I can do it, sorta, on good days, or when I focus really hard, but it's still a constant liability that undercuts almost every aspect of my independent adult life.

I swear, if there is a drug out there for this, it's gonna take a very strong argument to keep me away from it. Not that I want to be reliant on a chemical. But the rest of my life and happiness is at stake. How could I possibly support a family like this, for instance?

To be honest, I don't fully understand how you guys can cope with such dread animal tearing you down.

I think about my dad, as an example, who had two children and a house 4 years younger than I am now. Me? I'm still one of those kids.

@Sound:
You say that your depressions are 'fueled', and that's a good metaphor. In firefighting, they have a triangle of fire: fuel, oxygen, and heat. Take away any one of the legs of the triangle, and you take away the fire.

I've got 2 suggestions about how to take away the fuel -- do small, easy things that make it just a little bit better, and let yourself feel proud of it, even though it was small; and secondly, keep your expectations from being unrealistic. Without doubting that you are smart enough to do a PhD in something, expecting yourself to have already gotten one and be one of the better people in your field, when you haven't even chosen a field yet, is a bit much to ask.

The only thing I've found that really helps (so far, at least), is to always try to make small improvements, and to get good habits. Habits tend to be very strong for me, so once I form one, I tend not to have a problem with following through on that particular thing. And also ignoring things sometimes. That kind of sounds bad, but I freak out when too many things are hanging over my head. If I ignore most of them, and keep track of when I absolutely have to get things done, I won't feel bad about the things that I should be doing, and can focus better on the things I am actually getting done.

I'm not sure if this is helpful or relevant, but I find it useful to think of tasks in terms of their aesthetic payoff, instead of looking at them as chores. For instance, I think about enjoying the gleaming pile of clean dishes and pans that I will be creating by washing the dishes. Or if I'm watching TV and I start to think I want some lunch, I imagine the lovely dish of pasta I will have, and then the chore of preparing it becomes the fulfillment of a desire.

This may not be as off the wall as it sounds, because as I understand executive dysfunction, it's about not having an "executive" or a boss inside your head that spells out what you need to do, so it's hard to get yourself started on something. It's kind of like being frozen in place. So I have to be my own boss, and do it consciously, but instead of being a stern taskmaster, which I would be reluctant to listen to, I'm more like the wish-fulfillment fairy. I create a wish and then set about fulfilling it.

Crocus, Willard and Sound: I relate to your posts and could probably write a book in response. I will try to keep it short here.

I am in my 40s and executive dysfunction has probably been my biggest problem. Like Sound, I was once concerned about my ability to reliably care for my family. When I am on my game, I feel that I have elite skills in my field and I can really impress people I work with, but I cannot turn these skill into consistent production which makes keeping a job a strain. I spent years going to doctors, taking various medications, reading books and implementing various approaches. Like Williard, I have not found a workable adjustment for it yet.

Hey have you ever wondered if you have AD disorder in addition to AS?
I read a self-description of the mind of someone with ADHD in this news item that sort of sounds a bit like the way you describe yourself.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/ ... stonishing
The article itself is intriguing, its about a 'micro-nutrients' trial, but setting that aside there are quite a lot of different drugs out there for ADHD that seem pretty effective and getting better all the time.

And thank you for that. Don't stop

I find it helps a lot to focus on the details. Don't think about the 12 pages - you're just going to answer one question. Focus on that one question, complete it, then take the next question (or take a break if needed) etc. In the end it'll all be filled out, though all you did was answering single questions.

Don't think about the big task. It's like the people in cartoons - they'll run off a cliff and keep running in the air, and don't fall until they look down and realize what they're doing.

GTOC - I'm in my 40's as well and ditto. I could also write a book on the number of ways that executive dysfunction has hampered me, the worst has been in my work history. It also affected me in university when my workload became heavy and I had a breakdown. I loved university and was in my intellectual dream element. But, when I had too many tasks pile up, I shut down I did finally get my B.A. finishing my last course by correspondence.

Anyway, I've had an interesting history of moving between jobs all somehow related to my education and skills but never 'fulfilling my promise'. My family can't figure it out: "Why oh why does the most intelligent and gifted person in the family have such a problem with work???" hmm yeah

My solution a few years ago was to learn a trade. I really don't give a rat's butt if anyone thinks I am underacheiving. I am awesome at what I do and I provide excellent service. The only thing I have to be concerned about is not over-extending myself.

As for keeping a household running, the only way that my executive dysfunction really caused any handicap for me is in financial planning, which I'm useless at. When I was married, my husband took care of everything in that realm.

Huge fuel of my current depression.


I feel like I'll never be totally happy if I don't achieve up to my perceived potential. That you can avoid caring about underachieving is a blessing, but It doesn't sit well with me.
Interestingly, I'd considered shifting my focus to a trade instead, recently, however that option was precluded due to the present economy. No new apprenticeships taken.

Well, to clarify, It's not that I am avoiding caring about underachieving. It's others that know me, who think I am underachieving, not me. I used to define achievement and success by the same criteria as them, when I was younger. I changed my perspective when I started to accept myself for who I am.

Achievement to me is not all about having a high powered or prestigious job. It's not even about a lot of external recognitions. I also don't put the same value on types of work that a lot of people do, who really don't think for themselves. I put value on who someone is as a human being. It's a matter of where you put value and the achievement comes from doing your best in whatever endeavour you undertake and as a human. Now that to me, is an achievement.

I think it's not that people start out being ok with 'underachiving' -- it's more like getting to a point where you've metaphorically beaten your head bloody and the brick wall shows no signs of falling down. --That you were at your true limits, and things went to hell despite it. There's no guilt or "what if I tried harder?" because you know (in a deep way) that you already did.

Acceptance without the struggle could be called laziness. Acceptance after it is another thing, though. Probably everybody just has to take their shot and find out what that means first-hand, though. Some people seem to start out with the wisdom not to wreck themselves, but you sound like the driven type, which is probably what most 'successful' people and burnouts are.

this is me! the bolded part. It's more because I hate with a passion having to have people help me move. I have a futon right now. It is heavy. I will have to have help moving it when I go somewhere. I might just take the mattress, I don't know. I have never heard anyone say this before. I have NO knicknacks. Everything I have must have a function or it goes to goodwill. I cleaned about two months ago (not cleaning cleaning but cleaning out cleaning, it was my spring cleaning) and I have about 8 rubber totes I keep my possessions in and five of them are still on the porch. I keep having this fantasy of taking them and emptying them into the dumpster at work. It is gratifying to think about. Then I would have only three totes. I don't like chest of drawers...I feel guilty that a tree has to die just so I have a place to put my socks and underwear. I thought I would get over this stuff as I got older but the truth is I have gotten much, much worse as an adult. Right now my cabin is pretty empty and I love it this way. And when I clean, I drag my things out into the yard and hose them off. I want them to be really clean, not just dusted. My ideal house would have rooms with drains in all the floors, and I would just bring the hose in and hose everything off once a month or so. Otherwise it's not really clean.

I have the same conflict about 'am I lazy', etc. The thing is at jobs I work my behind off. Well, until recently when I became unalterably jaded. But when I still had hope I was the person who worked through breaks, etc.

Whoa.... a floor with a drain? That'd be like a dream come true.

I agree with that much.
In my case, I'm somewhat competative, I have a desire to have some affect on the world, and I have an extremely strong drive to excel at what I'm doing. How that relates to others is hard to quantify. The only clear-cut form of peer pressure I feel that factors in for me is that I feel like I'm letting my parents down. I'm not so sure whether I care, beyond that.

.... This rings true. But I wonder what it means to be a burnout?

Last edited by Sound on 22 Apr 2010, 5:06 am, edited 2 times in total.

Same here. As it translates to functioning in the real world, I would say my problem is "reliability."

One problem that I recognize is that Aspies do not have complete control over their own focus. For example, no matter what I do, my Aspie son is going to think about and talk about Pokemon. Tell him the house is on fire, he will probably tell you about Pokemon. Sometimes he focuses on something else, but I cannot control when and what that is. It is easy for me to see that in my son, but it took a long time for me to realize that about myself. Thus, it is problematic when your success requires reliably producing mental output (I can see the logical draw of learning a trade).

My success in school was always hit or miss. I failed out of college before graduating with honors. My effort and dedication would be the same, but some semesters I would pull As and others I would fail spectacularly. There was no middle ground and I couldn't figure out or predict why.

Jobs would go the same way. I would easily perform some tasks at a high level and look like a star, but I could not reliably produce on a day-to-day basis despite putting in extra time and effort.

I used to view myself as an underachiever based on the ease and high level of my successes. Now I accept that I need to take the good with the bad and that both together is who I am.

heh been there. I can tell you one of example of being a burnout from my own life.

Finally working in industry you dreamt of working in for years. Starting from the botom of heap and quickly moving up the food chain to get more and more positions of less grunt work and more challenge, more creativity, more recognition. Working 14, 16, 18, sometimes 20 hour days and for days on end. Not your regular 5 day work week for sure, but hey you're doing what you want to do!! For a while it's great and you can deal with having no life outside of it because you think you're living the dream, but you're not. That's when the BS starts. It doesn't take long. It never does. The backbiting, the politics, the neverending f*****g drama worse than a medieval Danish court , the jealousy and sabotage, the dumbest brick always inexplicably rising to the top, and the sheer pointlessness of it all when you feel like you're living in the world's worst daycare center filled with adults, in a Kafka novel and a reality show all at once and worse you have absolutely no life outside of it. You haven't slept properly in half a year and your diet consists of catered or take-out food, caffeine and alcohol. And then someone in your family dies - yeah DIES and they act like it's the end of their world for you take time off for a funeral.

Then you break down and realize what a tard you've been and chuck it for what's real,