30 Apr 2010, 12:55 pm
AngelRho wrote:
I've gotten trouble from this particular bunch before, really no more than threats but I have every reason to believe that they'd been involved before. People tend to brag, and word does get around. There was no reason for them to come to my house and it made me feel very uncomfortable that they did. That was done purposefully because there was nothing I could do to them off school grounds. I think I'd casually mentioned to someone else what I'd done and one of these kids, or a relative, or a friend overheard the conversation. They didn't really believed it until I opened my front door enough they could see my TV and their own faces on it. The last thing I heard one of them say to another was "Don't tell ___" There was nothing antagonistic about it, no "I dare you..." kind of thing going on. One would be stupid to get involved KNOWING what I was able to do. And we had some REALLY stupid kids in the area.
I wasn't liked BEFORE any of that happened. The administrators were making it very difficult for me to effectively do my job by insisting I keep these kids in my classroom, and in my situation my classes were privileges, not rights, and I was supposed to have the authority to give them the boot if I needed to (it's not like they needed the credit to graduate or anything--just an enrichment activity that they were supposed to enjoy, not disrupt). I repeatedly tried to enforce rules, get administration involved when there absolutely no options left, and got no backup at all when it came to those particular students. At this particular school, high grades are requisite for extracurricular activities, but of course, it is seldom enforced. I was desperate to keep my group unified, I had a card, and I played it. I've got nothing to be ashamed of for doing the right thing, whatever it took, no matter what happened, to keep a good group of kids together.
The reason I'm not a popular teacher has to do with my difficulty of getting on the same level as my students and setting and maintaining boundaries. People who are better at reading social cues don't really have that problem. My youngest students never gave me any trouble, and things were going really well in that department. It was only certain key intermediate and varsity students that really caused trouble. If not for certain key "bad seeds," my popularity or lack thereof wouldn't have made a bit of difference. If I'd been better at playing political games, things might have gone better for me, but it doesn't really matter now anyway. I HAVE been moderately successful with private instruction. My kids now see me as the laid-back, easy-going, kind uncle type. Little kids respond better to me, and I have NO idea why--it works, so I don't question it!
I used to avoid that group because I was scared of them. The irony is that's where my best following is.
I also followed some of my beginners after I had to leave. I'm the kind of guy that looks for musical talent in ALL kids, even the ones who cause trouble, and I do try to work with them to develop those talents. I had such a tiny group in intermediate band class that all I could do was work with each student individually or in small groups. I got attitude every way I turned, but I kept insisting on maintaining discipline, practicing, and reaching performance goals. I'd been teaching one student who was really capable, if not somewhat air-headed, how to play multi-percussion compositions, which is not something really do at the beginner/intermediate level. He was enormously successful for as long as I worked with him, and I was really sad to hear the new BD kicked him out because "I was sick of his attitude." So don't think I just give up on students. When behavior gets so destructing that equipment becomes unusable and classroom facilities become damaged or vandalized and other students feel bullied or distracted and talk about quitting because of all the abuse they have to take from a disturbed classmate, I'm not left with many options. If you were tormented by the same two people every day, you'd want a teacher to do something about it, right?
To get around my camera system, they did things like cover their faces with their hands, walking backwards--really dumb stuff. Even if they'd worn ski masks or pantyhose, it would still be easy to identify them based on height and build, walking gate, posture, and so on. They might have gotten away with it except my particular system had so much infrared energy it lit up a dark front yard like it was the middle of the day. One kid actually looked up directly into the camera!
I wasn't liked BEFORE any of that happened. The administrators were making it very difficult for me to effectively do my job by insisting I keep these kids in my classroom, and in my situation my classes were privileges, not rights, and I was supposed to have the authority to give them the boot if I needed to (it's not like they needed the credit to graduate or anything--just an enrichment activity that they were supposed to enjoy, not disrupt). I repeatedly tried to enforce rules, get administration involved when there absolutely no options left, and got no backup at all when it came to those particular students. At this particular school, high grades are requisite for extracurricular activities, but of course, it is seldom enforced. I was desperate to keep my group unified, I had a card, and I played it. I've got nothing to be ashamed of for doing the right thing, whatever it took, no matter what happened, to keep a good group of kids together.
The reason I'm not a popular teacher has to do with my difficulty of getting on the same level as my students and setting and maintaining boundaries. People who are better at reading social cues don't really have that problem. My youngest students never gave me any trouble, and things were going really well in that department. It was only certain key intermediate and varsity students that really caused trouble. If not for certain key "bad seeds," my popularity or lack thereof wouldn't have made a bit of difference. If I'd been better at playing political games, things might have gone better for me, but it doesn't really matter now anyway. I HAVE been moderately successful with private instruction. My kids now see me as the laid-back, easy-going, kind uncle type. Little kids respond better to me, and I have NO idea why--it works, so I don't question it!
I used to avoid that group because I was scared of them. The irony is that's where my best following is.I also followed some of my beginners after I had to leave. I'm the kind of guy that looks for musical talent in ALL kids, even the ones who cause trouble, and I do try to work with them to develop those talents. I had such a tiny group in intermediate band class that all I could do was work with each student individually or in small groups. I got attitude every way I turned, but I kept insisting on maintaining discipline, practicing, and reaching performance goals. I'd been teaching one student who was really capable, if not somewhat air-headed, how to play multi-percussion compositions, which is not something really do at the beginner/intermediate level. He was enormously successful for as long as I worked with him, and I was really sad to hear the new BD kicked him out because "I was sick of his attitude." So don't think I just give up on students. When behavior gets so destructing that equipment becomes unusable and classroom facilities become damaged or vandalized and other students feel bullied or distracted and talk about quitting because of all the abuse they have to take from a disturbed classmate, I'm not left with many options. If you were tormented by the same two people every day, you'd want a teacher to do something about it, right?
To get around my camera system, they did things like cover their faces with their hands, walking backwards--really dumb stuff. Even if they'd worn ski masks or pantyhose, it would still be easy to identify them based on height and build, walking gate, posture, and so on. They might have gotten away with it except my particular system had so much infrared energy it lit up a dark front yard like it was the middle of the day. One kid actually looked up directly into the camera!
Well, you know Angel, I few things become apparent in the way you describe the goings-on in your life and classroom. For one thing, you tend to blame everyone else for all of your problems. It's either the administrators fault or the kids' fault. I don't read anywhere in your posts about you looking at your own accountability for your interpersonal problems. You say you have social difficulties, but then in the same sentence you slough it off, like that shouldn't be taken into account.
Secondly, I read a distinct arrogance and condescention that comes through loud and clear from you. That's part of what I was getting at with the antagonism. You assume people are stupid or call them air headed or trouble makers. That's antagonistic. So, is threatening legal action and videotaping at the drop of a hat. Also, education, and that includes your music classroom, is a right in democratic countries, not, as you put it, a priviledge. Quite frankly, that makes you sound pompous.
I'm not making excuses for what the kids acting up in front of your security camera, but if you really want to understand why they would do it, maybe look at your own actions toward them. You call them "dumb", so that's what they're going to do - act dumb for you.
AngelRho
Veteran
Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile
30 Apr 2010, 4:05 pm
crocus wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
I've gotten trouble from this particular bunch before, really no more than threats but I have every reason to believe that they'd been involved before. People tend to brag, and word does get around. There was no reason for them to come to my house and it made me feel very uncomfortable that they did. That was done purposefully because there was nothing I could do to them off school grounds. I think I'd casually mentioned to someone else what I'd done and one of these kids, or a relative, or a friend overheard the conversation. They didn't really believed it until I opened my front door enough they could see my TV and their own faces on it. The last thing I heard one of them say to another was "Don't tell ___" There was nothing antagonistic about it, no "I dare you..." kind of thing going on. One would be stupid to get involved KNOWING what I was able to do. And we had some REALLY stupid kids in the area.
I wasn't liked BEFORE any of that happened. The administrators were making it very difficult for me to effectively do my job by insisting I keep these kids in my classroom, and in my situation my classes were privileges, not rights, and I was supposed to have the authority to give them the boot if I needed to (it's not like they needed the credit to graduate or anything--just an enrichment activity that they were supposed to enjoy, not disrupt). I repeatedly tried to enforce rules, get administration involved when there absolutely no options left, and got no backup at all when it came to those particular students. At this particular school, high grades are requisite for extracurricular activities, but of course, it is seldom enforced. I was desperate to keep my group unified, I had a card, and I played it. I've got nothing to be ashamed of for doing the right thing, whatever it took, no matter what happened, to keep a good group of kids together.
The reason I'm not a popular teacher has to do with my difficulty of getting on the same level as my students and setting and maintaining boundaries. People who are better at reading social cues don't really have that problem. My youngest students never gave me any trouble, and things were going really well in that department. It was only certain key intermediate and varsity students that really caused trouble. If not for certain key "bad seeds," my popularity or lack thereof wouldn't have made a bit of difference. If I'd been better at playing political games, things might have gone better for me, but it doesn't really matter now anyway. I HAVE been moderately successful with private instruction. My kids now see me as the laid-back, easy-going, kind uncle type. Little kids respond better to me, and I have NO idea why--it works, so I don't question it! I used to avoid that group because I was scared of them. The irony is that's where my best following is.
I also followed some of my beginners after I had to leave. I'm the kind of guy that looks for musical talent in ALL kids, even the ones who cause trouble, and I do try to work with them to develop those talents. I had such a tiny group in intermediate band class that all I could do was work with each student individually or in small groups. I got attitude every way I turned, but I kept insisting on maintaining discipline, practicing, and reaching performance goals. I'd been teaching one student who was really capable, if not somewhat air-headed, how to play multi-percussion compositions, which is not something really do at the beginner/intermediate level. He was enormously successful for as long as I worked with him, and I was really sad to hear the new BD kicked him out because "I was sick of his attitude." So don't think I just give up on students. When behavior gets so destructing that equipment becomes unusable and classroom facilities become damaged or vandalized and other students feel bullied or distracted and talk about quitting because of all the abuse they have to take from a disturbed classmate, I'm not left with many options. If you were tormented by the same two people every day, you'd want a teacher to do something about it, right?
To get around my camera system, they did things like cover their faces with their hands, walking backwards--really dumb stuff. Even if they'd worn ski masks or pantyhose, it would still be easy to identify them based on height and build, walking gate, posture, and so on. They might have gotten away with it except my particular system had so much infrared energy it lit up a dark front yard like it was the middle of the day. One kid actually looked up directly into the camera!
I wasn't liked BEFORE any of that happened. The administrators were making it very difficult for me to effectively do my job by insisting I keep these kids in my classroom, and in my situation my classes were privileges, not rights, and I was supposed to have the authority to give them the boot if I needed to (it's not like they needed the credit to graduate or anything--just an enrichment activity that they were supposed to enjoy, not disrupt). I repeatedly tried to enforce rules, get administration involved when there absolutely no options left, and got no backup at all when it came to those particular students. At this particular school, high grades are requisite for extracurricular activities, but of course, it is seldom enforced. I was desperate to keep my group unified, I had a card, and I played it. I've got nothing to be ashamed of for doing the right thing, whatever it took, no matter what happened, to keep a good group of kids together.
The reason I'm not a popular teacher has to do with my difficulty of getting on the same level as my students and setting and maintaining boundaries. People who are better at reading social cues don't really have that problem. My youngest students never gave me any trouble, and things were going really well in that department. It was only certain key intermediate and varsity students that really caused trouble. If not for certain key "bad seeds," my popularity or lack thereof wouldn't have made a bit of difference. If I'd been better at playing political games, things might have gone better for me, but it doesn't really matter now anyway. I HAVE been moderately successful with private instruction. My kids now see me as the laid-back, easy-going, kind uncle type. Little kids respond better to me, and I have NO idea why--it works, so I don't question it!
I used to avoid that group because I was scared of them. The irony is that's where my best following is.I also followed some of my beginners after I had to leave. I'm the kind of guy that looks for musical talent in ALL kids, even the ones who cause trouble, and I do try to work with them to develop those talents. I had such a tiny group in intermediate band class that all I could do was work with each student individually or in small groups. I got attitude every way I turned, but I kept insisting on maintaining discipline, practicing, and reaching performance goals. I'd been teaching one student who was really capable, if not somewhat air-headed, how to play multi-percussion compositions, which is not something really do at the beginner/intermediate level. He was enormously successful for as long as I worked with him, and I was really sad to hear the new BD kicked him out because "I was sick of his attitude." So don't think I just give up on students. When behavior gets so destructing that equipment becomes unusable and classroom facilities become damaged or vandalized and other students feel bullied or distracted and talk about quitting because of all the abuse they have to take from a disturbed classmate, I'm not left with many options. If you were tormented by the same two people every day, you'd want a teacher to do something about it, right?
To get around my camera system, they did things like cover their faces with their hands, walking backwards--really dumb stuff. Even if they'd worn ski masks or pantyhose, it would still be easy to identify them based on height and build, walking gate, posture, and so on. They might have gotten away with it except my particular system had so much infrared energy it lit up a dark front yard like it was the middle of the day. One kid actually looked up directly into the camera!
Well, you know Angel, I few things become apparent in the way you describe the goings-on in your life and classroom. For one thing, you tend to blame everyone else for all of your problems. It's either the administrators fault or the kids' fault. I don't read anywhere in your posts about you looking at your own accountability for your interpersonal problems. You say you have social difficulties, but then in the same sentence you slough it off, like that shouldn't be taken into account.
Secondly, I read a distinct arrogance and condescention that comes through loud and clear from you. That's part of what I was getting at with the antagonism. You assume people are stupid or call them air headed or trouble makers. That's antagonistic. So, is threatening legal action and videotaping at the drop of a hat. Also, education, and that includes your music classroom, is a right in democratic countries, not, as you put it, a priviledge. Quite frankly, that makes you sound pompous.
I'm not making excuses for what the kids acting up in front of your security camera, but if you really want to understand why they would do it, maybe look at your own actions toward them. You call them "dumb", so that's what they're going to do - act dumb for you.
I can certainly admit I'm not perfect, so don't misunderstand that I think that highly of myself. I can even see how I might come across as arrogant to some people, though being a jerk is not something I just make up my mind to do everyday when I wake up. I'd much rather treat people the way I want to be treated. The problem for me is that as a school employee, I'm charged with upholding the rules and policies of the school. Ever see the movie Teachers? I always felt like Carl Rosenberg in that movie. He's not a bad guy, he just doesn't have the look and mannerism of a "guy in charge." He's CERTAINLY not arrogant. The trouble really starts to happen when one certifiably psycho kid singles him for pranks. School officials consistently fail to act, and yet he really does his best to follow through with policy and play by the rules. When he's confronted by a lawyer, the lawyer for the school district refuses to let him answer, and he just loses it.
In my personal experience, my second teaching job was for a very poor, low-performing school with students who couldn't care any less for the subject matter. I didn't have any choice over my students because I was THE fine arts teacher whose class was required for graduation. I had a tough first year there, but things got done, students learned, and I learned a lot of valuable lessons in dealing with a predominantly minority, rural culture. I still wasn't the popular teacher then, either, but I had a number of kids come to my room, even after school, "just to hang out." I even showed some of them how to produce a rap song, if you can believe that, and I don't even like rap music.
What ended up happening during my second year, which was MUCH better than my first, is I ran afoul of a new principal who, if I'M arrogant, was MUCH more so. I never could figure out how to get along with the guy, and it wasn't as though I hadn't tried. I went to the superintendent, not to complain, but just for advice because my contract was coming up for renewal. All he told me was to spend some time in his office and see what was going on. I took his advice. Very calmly, I simply asked if there were any problems and what, if anything, I could do about it. I got yelled at for the better part of a half hour, and to this day I have no idea what for. What I do know is that school had a history of expelling band directors within a year and I was lucky to have held on for two. The next guy after me made it for a year, renewed his contract, and then mysteriously vanished. I suspect the district might have just been trying to look for ways to shut the program down, but there was too much student and parent outcry for that to happen in the usual way. I hated to leave, but that having been only my second teaching job, I wasn't about to put my employability in someone else's hands. That might sound selfish, but I don't see that I really had much of a choice as a young teacher.
My last job was were the trouble started. As many threats as I'd gotten from gangs and mentally/emotionally disturbed individuals that were mainstreamed into my classes in the past, I've always managed to win their respect--probably because I'm just crazy enough to stand toe-to-toe with guys three times bigger than me. You think I'M arrogant, try dealing with the more upscale kids I had to deal with at my last job, and they actually did attack me on my own turf. That had NEVER happened to me before, even with "worse" kids I'd dealt with before. They saw what they thought to be weakness, so they went for it. At first I just figured it was a rite of passage, but the behavior became increasingly destructive, so much that my wife was afraid to come home and we both feared for the safety of our son. And all as just a result of me doing my job to the best of my ability.
The camera system instantly proved to be a deterrent against some of the study hall punks (btw, they themselves would agree with me on that one--I'm not being arrogant here, just honest! They took pride in that), and we were finally able to sleep at night. The two ex-band members and their friend were the only ones to test me on this. If it had been a one-time thing, I'd have just let it go, but we're talking about 3-4 times in a year, and there's only just so much egg and peanut butter I'm willing to scrape up (that was among the more benign things that happened).
For an entire year, NOTHING happened, and I'm not kidding myself to believe that leaving the BD business had anything to do with it. It just meant we had a whole other set of people to worry about, and once again, that was something completely unexpected. I'm well aware of my social inadequacies. What I do puts me in the public spotlight, and I know better than to try to make extended conversations with people who simply stop by to tell me they enjoy my work (a smile and a thank-you are enough). So to avoid upsetting people with my "arrogance," I just keep to myself. As it turns out, we opted for elective surgery to relieve our son's recurring ear infections (tubes). If you've ever had to deal with a child with tubes for that condition, you know how messy it is through 3/4 of the year. So one or two people in our church expressed "concern" over his condition. This also coincided with the birth of our daughter who, due to complications during the pregnancy, was born 8 weeks early in an emergency C-section. Within two weeks after my wife came home (our girl had to stay in the hospital for three weeks), we had our first visit from social workers. We shrugged it off as an evil prank, but it was no less frightening at the time. Our church, which had always been a refuge for us, soon became hostile as one person complained--excuse me, "expressed concern"-- that we brought our son with cotton in his ears--ear infections are frequently common, often do NOT cause pain, and are NOT contagious, something you'd think every parent would know. On one occasion, my wife was even escorted from church and had to wait in the parking lot until I could leave. We had two more visits from social workers. Friends of ours began asking me where my wife was, and I told them EXACTLY where she was and why.
I made a promise not to discuss details of what happened next, and I feel the need to keep that promise even here. Suffice it to say that meetings were held, questions were asked, issues were raised, and lawyers were consulted. My wife and I NEVER had any problems since then aside from the inevitable run-in with a particularly nosy church member. We've been very nice about it and answer questions as vaguely as possible.
Months later, we were very blessed to sell our house given the economy. The sad part was that we were virtually homeless for 10 weeks until we could buy a cheaper place to live, but we made it work, and at least the story has a kind of happily-ever-after ending.
So if being imperfect and enduring strenuous, if not impossible, circumstances makes me arrogant, then all I can say is I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm certainly prone to making mistakes just as much as anyone else. All I can say in my personal, social, and professional life is that I did my very best, some things worked out, others didn't. I've learned a lot, and I haven't given up yet. I would advise you to carefully consider the wisdom of calling people arrogant if you don't really know them well. We've always done our very best to resolve our problems (with each other and with other people) without resorting to extreme police or legal recourse. The sad reality is sometimes these things are necessary, and fear for one's safety and that of one's family is not an easy thing to live with.
30 Apr 2010, 4:30 pm
30 Apr 2010, 5:04 pm
AngelRho
Veteran
Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile
30 Apr 2010, 9:16 pm
crocus wrote:
Thanks for taking the considerable time to write out more fully what you've been going through. It certainly puts it in fuller context and I can understand where you're coming from better. I apologize for offending you by mentioning arrogance. It wasn't my intention to call you arrogant, or label you that way from a few posts. Not that, I'm trying to excuse my using of the word or diffuse my apology. I certainly don't want to judge someone too quickly and I'm sorry if my post to you sounded that way. I wasn't judging you. What I was awkwardly trying to express was that the actions that you describe in your initial posts and many of the things you said, "sounded" arrogant and could be construed as arrogant by others, thereby kind of creating the mess that you are regrettably in. It's like a self fulfilling prophesy.
We are all prone to that. We expect only a certain kind of behaviour from someone or a group and then that's what we get. I've done it myself. It's human. Be that as it may, you've filled the picture in more, and as usual when that happens, it's not so simple and I appreciate you doing that.
It does seem from the information you've added that you and your family have been somehow singled out as scapegoats or targets for some reason. It's a horribly painful position to be in and I can empathize with that.
Why do you think that's happening?
The situation in your church is bizarre. Who in this day and age doesn't understand ear infections?
We are all prone to that. We expect only a certain kind of behaviour from someone or a group and then that's what we get. I've done it myself. It's human. Be that as it may, you've filled the picture in more, and as usual when that happens, it's not so simple and I appreciate you doing that.
It does seem from the information you've added that you and your family have been somehow singled out as scapegoats or targets for some reason. It's a horribly painful position to be in and I can empathize with that.
Why do you think that's happening?
The situation in your church is bizarre. Who in this day and age doesn't understand ear infections?
Thank you Crocus, and perhaps I shouldn't have been so casual in the beginning--I can see how my words might have been misunderstood. I'm honestly not offended, otherwise I probably would have just called you stupid.
And I guess that would have just proved your point. lol
I don't know how to explain the whole being a "target" thing. It seems I was an easy target throughout school and my undergrad years in college. I didn't know what AS was back then, and I was once diagnosed as ADD and medicated for it. The meds actually made me violent. I've never been one to consider suicide, but at one point I didn't even care about living. I got into fights with the wrong people and did a surprising amount of damage, all things considered. I decided I cared more about staying in school after that, and it wasn't long my worst fight that my school cracked down on fighting. The bullying didn't stop. I just stopped taking Ritalin and placed my focus on things that were much more important.
I can't explain other than I'm just not the image of a tough, socially or politically charismatic guy. I decided to give up on trying and rather go with what I know. If it means I'm isolated, so what? Every now and then I accomplish something, especially things that involve people, and I can't help but get really excited about it. I think partly these problems have spilled over onto my wife. I'm in a position where people who don't like me CAN'T get rid of me, so they take it out on her. I used what little influence I had to get people to leave her and my children alone, and everything has been WONDERFUL over the last year.
I don't mean to stray way off-topic, but I think of pranks that involve people with AS/ASD happen because for some of us, the condition makes us easy targets. We aren't ordinary, and people might think they can do the things they do to get a reaction for their own amusement. The problem with me is that I've learned to ignore it, which makes people want to work harder to find my limit. They won't find that limit, but they will try at the expense of my family, and that is a horrible thing to do to anybody. I think, because of my own experience, for many of us the best influence we can have over others is much more subtle than with NTs. If that leads to some people getting arrested for being truly horrid, so be it, because I've already done all I can do by that point.
The situation was truly bizarre. One key player in the whole incident is no longer in our church. Your belief/opinions may differ from mine, but I do hold to my faith that God is in all things. Not long ago this person had a baby of her own and subsequently arranged to go to part-time status with her employer. Her husband's office was closed by the company, and they felt forced to move far, far away. Anyone else we believe involved either leaves us alone or we just give them vague, one-word answers when they talk to us, and otherwise now it's almost as though nothing ever happened. The only thing that has changed is we no longer discuss ANYTHING about our personal, home life or that of our children.
And I don't mean to sound all broken up over it NOW. It's all water under the bridge now. But those things were extremely frightening when they happened last year. Tequila said "Hunt down the perpetrators." Perhaps not quite, but I won't lie and say it hadn't crossed my mind!
01 May 2010, 11:54 am
