Do you avoid telling people your plans?
Same thing for me also. As soon as I tell people my plans they jump all over trying to get me to do something else. It's my life so why the hell should you even care?
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For example, if someone asks me "So what will you be doing after you get your doctorate", I usually tell them, "I don't know. We'll see." In reality, I do know where I want to be headed and have at least two or three plans in place but I have found in the past that most people are: a) untrustworthy and gossipy, b) jealous c) will try to sabotage your plans, d) will not understand why you have such plans e) will sometimes not want to associate with you if they do not like your plans.
Can other aspies relate?
I don't understand why you would automatically think someone will, or even can, sabotage your plans.
Nor do I understand why you would think they would be jealous of your plans.
To be quite honest I have been a student before and have been around many students and neither myself or anyone I know of has ever encountered any of the scenarios of your concern.
For example, if someone asks me "So what will you be doing after you get your doctorate", I usually tell them, "I don't know. We'll see." In reality, I do know where I want to be headed and have at least two or three plans in place but I have found in the past that most people are: a) untrustworthy and gossipy, b) jealous c) will try to sabotage your plans, d) will not understand why you have such plans e) will sometimes not want to associate with you if they do not like your plans.
Can other aspies relate?
Oh I can relate!!
I'm glad to see that there are people among us who don't have these types of experiences. But you can believe her when she says people can and have sabotaged plans for others/herself ... I know, because I recognize easily my own problems.
In a manner of speaking: "You'd be surprised at how much people CAN and WILL do! Can you think it? Then it has happened and most likely is happening!"
I'm truly happy that you're being spared such concerns. But the world is a large place, and the human mind is larger yet.
To be quite honest I have been a student before and have been around many students and neither myself or anyone I know of has ever encountered any of the scenarios of your concern.
This problem doesn't always evolve around a Studying Situation or around schools or universities.
There exist so many levels of Plans, of drive and ambition in life - f.ex. the private sphere, i.e. family and what comes with it.
The things Alla refers to in connection with having Plans can also relate to such simple details as showing unique drive and being highly intelligent at the same time. It is truly amazing how little it takes for some people to decide to go out of their way in order to destroy someone else's happiness.
And here's the point: How can someone who have any cause for jealousy toward another's drive and intelligence possibly be capable of ruining anything for such a person?
The answer: Well, some people who have a high IQ and a unique drive also have Asperger's Syndrome, and along with that come some very weak spots which some Neuro-Typical people can and will exploit with virtuoso ease.
As unlikely as it may seem, the "unspoiled truthfulness" or "childlike naivity" that some people have used to describe some people with Asperger's is all it takes for some other people to feel that strange urge to destroy. Sometimes this - the high focus towards a goal, etc. - gives off an air of being untouchable (you know the saying: He who is true Of Heart/To Himself can not be defeated), and this is very provoking to certain people ... to a lot of "certain" people, actually. And you are really lucky to have not encountered this, Chronos!
From what you write in your reply to Alla I get the impression that you are not alone in life, that you have some kind of "safe net", at least in the sense that you have a reasonably good level of understanding from your family and/or friends.
This is often all it takes to NOT become the target of the kind of abuse Alla is referring to. As you most likely know, these people do not suffer from "social blindness" like we (people with Asperger's) do; on the contrary: They can read in everything you do, or not do (without you necessarily saying anything at all), that you're not alone, and that is a major thing! People who are alone are open prey, free prey, and people know they can mistreat us without retribution (because people who are alone have no one who can or will avenge them).
Okay, enough for now.
I've already touched on things that are so negative that most people will likely disregard it just because of that. The reason I wrote it anyway is that I have a hope it will find some resonance in those who dare to consider what I'm saying in spite of the negativity (and controversy?).
And mind you, I'm not propagating that Man is Evil and there's No Goodness left in The World or anything of that sort.
I am merely saying there are ALSO people who are not good. And these can - and do - destroy a lot for people like us (they can destroy a lot for each other too, but they're not vulnerable in the same way that we are. And it's another subject).
ding, ding, ding, ding, ding...
You are correct. I'm sorry, you did not win the bonus point because you didn't add "you analyze other peoples plans and mock their ideas since they are not the same as yours."
I waited until I closed on a $200K house before telling my mom. I'm like a sleezeball casino that only reports 'winners'. Plans that failed are bottled up inside.
This is often all it takes to NOT become the target of the kind of abuse Alla is referring to. As you most likely know, these people do not suffer from "social blindness" like we (people with Asperger's) do; on the contrary: They can read in everything you do, or not do (without you necessarily saying anything at all), that you're not alone, and that is a major thing! People who are alone are open prey, free prey, and people know they can mistreat us without retribution (because people who are alone have no one who can or will avenge them).
I've certainly had people doubt me before, but I was never much for paying attention to them other than a glancing annoyance. I really hate when people try to include me in their delusional defeatism; those who see constraints where there really are none, and resign themselves in the face of these perceived restraints to various aspects of their lives.
It's true, my family does not doubt me, but this is only after a life time of consistently proving them wrong (though my goal was never to prove, but rather to continue doing that which I had initially set out to do).
I find that non-verbal communication is a two way street. I do not believe that NT's can necessarily read me any better than I read them. In fact, I think perhaps they read me worse.
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Not at all. I tell people that when I'm older I'm going to be rich, which I'll do either with some sort of business or investment activity (though that's subject to change). If they tell me it can't be done, I simply say that I'm sure people thought Bill Gates wouldn't start the world's biggest software company either, and I'll tell them that I'll look forward to seeing them out the window of my Rolls-Royce.
It's true, my family does not doubt me, but this is only after a life time of consistently proving them wrong (though my goal was never to prove, but rather to continue doing that which I had initially set out to do).
I find that non-verbal communication is a two way street. I do not believe that NT's can necessarily read me any better than I read them. In fact, I think perhaps they read me worse.
Chronos,
I understand what you're saying.
But the kind of trust I am speaking about is of a yet more "profound" nature, if I can say it that way. It's the kind of trust you can't build, you can't earn it or dis-earn it. You either have it or you don't! It's the kind of trust that some families have to their kin, a deep inherent trust that goes beyond any disappointing deeds of the individual family member.
We're usually not aware that we have this trust - or that it even exists - which is understandable because we have nothing to compare it with. After all, we can't live two lives at once, and someone else's family comes with only that family's experiences. A trust like the one I'm referring to is cognitive in nature and can't be easily communicated without there being other values that would fit the same terms. Thus, it's one of the typically "non-verbalized" things in life, and in a family, but which greatly creates the basis needed to succeed in life on many various levels.
It's true, my family does not doubt me, but this is only after a life time of consistently proving them wrong (though my goal was never to prove, but rather to continue doing that which I had initially set out to do).
I find that non-verbal communication is a two way street. I do not believe that NT's can necessarily read me any better than I read them. In fact, I think perhaps they read me worse.
Chronos,
I understand what you're saying.
But the kind of trust I am speaking about is of a yet more "profound" nature, if I can say it that way. It's the kind of trust you can't build, you can't earn it or dis-earn it. You either have it or you don't! It's a kind of trust that some families have to their kin, a deep inherent trust that goes beyond any disappointing deeds of the individual family member.
We're usually not aware that we have this trust - or that it even exists - which is understandable because we have nothing to compare it with. After all, we can't live two lives at once, and someone else's family comes with only that family's experiences.
A trust like the one I'm referring to is cognitive in nature and can't be communicated without there being other values that would fit the same terms. Thus, it's one of the "non-verbalized" values in life, and it is one that greatly creates the basis needed to succeed as a person.
Last edited by Puzelle on 06 May 2010, 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Not really. I guess I'm kinda like an open book. If someone asks me a question unless I have thought about it beforehand, I tell them the truth. It seldom occurs to me to come up with an alternate answer to give them. It's little bit like telling a white lie to not tell the whole truth when asked a question when you know the whole truth, and I'm not very good at that sort of thing.
Frankly, a long time ago I learned that NOTHING I ever planned turned out as I expected. So, why tell people I'm going to do X, when the odds are I won't actually be doing it.
Unless I know something is certain (e.g., already have the job I'll be going on to), why say anything?
That, and I really don't like people knowing my business.
My plans are MINE, so they're usually deep inside my head and don't come out.
If my plans are great, beautiful and I'm really sure I can do them, I tell, why not? It's better to show the strenghts, not weaknesses
Some people think I make big and frightening plans against them, but they're wrong. I don't think of people if I don't want to.
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No I don't usually tell people my plans. For one thing, if I'm going to fail, I'd rather keep that to myself. Then there are those who might scupper my plans. I had quite a restricted upbringing and I guess that's where I learned to keep stuff to myself.
Not that it comes up much. I don't really have any big plans except to retire from the day job and just get into enjoying life and doing all those little jobs that have built up. That and gradually consolidating my circle of friends. Of course I have short-term plans all the time, completing this or that project, but I'm not really a planner. I got criticised by a boss when I was in my 20s for not having a plan for my life, but frankly I think it's more fun just drifting and relying on my impulses to get me what I want. I need a lot of predictability in my life, but it would be very boring to have my actual life plotted out....even I need some surprises. I need goals but I don't want every step of my existence pre-defined. The stuff I'm familiar with always seems rather lacklustre and finite compared to the Great Unknown which is potentially limitless in its dangers and rewards. I also think managements have rather put me off the idea of targets. I have no career expectations, and never did have, apart from holding onto my position till it gets too much, and maybe a little promotion here and there if the gods want to go that way.
Yes, I tend to divulge information on a need to know basis.
My thought processes are so different from those of most people that I have to carefully screen what I communicate.
Money making, career ideas is one of the stickiest areas. Even those closest to me are more likely to dismiss them as nonsense. I recognize however that my differences might make me unsuited to paths with high likelihoods of success for most people who undertake them. I am not most people and I perceive that I could succeed in endeavors that would be long shots for most people...
Letting people know about plans means being committed. Personal intention becomes social artifact. Your reputation is now on the line and you have to do something about it. Why ruin a perfectly pleasant no-pressure open-ended situation? When the plan has been carried out successfully, then it can be revealed to one's advantage.
Why talk about something that is not yet complete? Nothing good could come of it.
Ambivalence
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Yah. What are these Earth things you call "plans"?

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RampionRampage
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I have a toxic parent.
She's a fan of sabotage.
..........she's not allowed to contact me anymore.
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As of 2-06-08 --- Axis I: Asperger's Disorder | Axis III: Hearing Impaired
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For example, if someone asks me "So what will you be doing after you get your doctorate", I usually tell them, "I don't know. We'll see." In reality, I do know where I want to be headed and have at least two or three plans in place but I have found in the past that most people are: a) untrustworthy and gossipy, b) jealous c) will try to sabotage your plans, d) will not understand why you have such plans e) will sometimes not want to associate with you if they do not like your plans.
Can other aspies relate?
I can relate. I don't tell people details concerning where I will go, what I will be doing, when will I be gone. It's too risky. I have learned the hard way to not disclose such information. I don't like talking about my ambitions, either. In my case, it's more advantageous to quietly plod along, steadfastly securing my goals.
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